Nominations Hearing for Department of Commerce Nominees

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Good morning. The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation will come to order. I want to take a moment at the outset to address the tragedy in my home state over the holiday weekend. In the early hours of July 4th, Central Texas was hit with extraordinary flash flooding. More than 100 people have died, and the death toll is expected to keep growing. Over 160 remain missing right now, and the search effort is ongoing as we speak. I'm the father of two daughters. When I think of those little girls that were lost at Camp Mystic, it's every parent's worst nightmare. I was at Camp Mystic on Monday. The devastation in that 100-year-old, beautiful girls' camp that has helped raise generation of girls and women in Texas— the devastation was the most horrific thing I've ever seen. The Guadalupe River is normally a quiet and peaceful river. I've been swimming and floating in that river dozens of times. There's a reason there are 40 camps right there in Kerr County, because it is absolutely beautiful. My youngest daughter, Catherine, goes to camp just a few miles up the river from Camp Mystic. My wife, Heidi, was there the week before picking Catherine up. We had been celebrating because Catherine had won war canoe, where the girls race in canoes against other girls in the camp. And Catherine was a good athlete, and she had won war canoe. And I looked at that same peaceful river, and 1.8 trillion gallons of water dumped upon it in the early hours of July 4th, and it rose some 30 feet. Camp Mystic, the river is hundreds of yards away from the cabins. There's a lot of space there. And yet you looked at the cabins, and in the cabins, there was 8 foot of water in every girl's cabin. You could see the waterline. It washed out every single thing in the cabin. There's one cabin, the cabin where the youngest girls were in, called Bumble Inn. The water blew out the windows in that cabin and swept all of the girls and the counselors out. Every girl in that cabin is either confirmed dead or missing. Outside that cabin are 17 single white crosses with the names of the girls written on it. The 17th cross, the name written on it is Dick Eastland, who for 50 years had been the camp director at Camp Mystic. And Dick likewise lost his life in those early morning hours in his Suburban, driving through high water trying to rescue his girls. Texas, our heart is broken. And we saw extraordinary courage, we saw search and rescue, we saw heroes. I met with a young Coast Guardsman on Monday who's credited with 165 rescues. He landed at Camp Mystic. They put him on the ground in a very difficult helicopter landing, and he was at a field at the highest point of the campground, helping rescue little girls. For three and a half hours, they helicoptered out 165 girls, about 15 per helicopter. And he sat there and held their hands and stayed on the ground with them. This guy— I know a lot of my colleagues have gotten to meet Coast Guard swimmers, who I have analogized— they're kind of like Navy SEALs and California surfers mixed together. Like this young man, he described himself in the press. He said, I'm just a dude, which is something a Coast Guard swimmer would say, but they're completely fearless. And when I saw him, he had just hung up the phone from talking with a mom and dad and with their daughter, and they were crying. They said, You saved our daughter's life. And when she was there, terrified out of her mind, you held her hand and told her it'd be okay. So, the weather can have enormous consequences. Our thoughts today are also with the people of Ruidoso, New Mexico, who faced flash flooding just yesterday evening. The power of a flash flood, the power of a tornado, the power of a hurricane, the power of a wildfire to devastate and destroy. Flying in a Coast Guard helicopter up the Guadalupe River, it was astonishing the devastation that water can produce. Cars were flung around like Matchbox cars. And you know, when a car hits a tree, the car loses, the car crumples, but I'll tell you, when water hits trees, the trees lose. And all up and down the Guadalupe River, you saw thousands of trees just run over like a bulldozer had knocked them down. That was the force of the 30-foot wall of water that just everything in its path obliterated. Now, when tragedy strikes, we ask ourselves what could have been done differently. And that's a question that we need to ask. In any crisis, there's an order that things play out. Stage number one is search and rescue, and that's got to be the first priority: saving lives, getting lives out of harm's way. Stage number two is recovery and rebuilding, and that's a process that takes months or even years as you go to the homes that are destroyed, you go to the buildings that are destroyed, and you look to rebuild. And we'll do that. Texas will rebuild. We're strong. But there's also a process of engaging in a retrospective and saying, what is the exact timeline of what transpired and what could we have done better? Look, every one of us looking at the flooding in Texas, if we could step into a time machine and go back to 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning on July 4th, we would rush into those little girls' cabins and get them the hell out of there. And so one question, Dr. Jacobs, you and I had a very good conversation in my office yesterday. I want to thank each of the nominees here for your expertise. But one question we will certainly be asking in Texas, and we ought to be asking across the country, is how can we improve the speed and rate of response that when an extreme weather warning goes out— in Texas, National Weather Service put out one at just after 1:00 a.m. and another just after 4:00 a.m., but the problem is most people are asleep at 1:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m., so those little girls never heard the warning. And so there are discussions about all sorts of steps we can take, including setting up sirens and warning systems along the Guadalupe River Valley, which I think makes an awful lot of sense. But we ought to be asking what lessons can be learned and what can be done more effectively to protect human life. Now, this hearing, we have three very qualified nominees. We have Dr. Neil Jacobs, who is the nominee for Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and NOAA Administrator. We have Mr. Taylor Jordan, the nominee for Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Environmental Observation and Prediction. And we have Mr. Harry Kumar, the nominee for Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. I think each of them are highly qualified. I appreciate your willingness to serve, and I appreciate your commitment to protecting public safety. There's no mission that is more important, particularly concerning weather-related events, than early detection, knowing what is happening, and improving the ability to notify people in harm's way and get them out of the way. We know we're going to have other disasters going forward. There will be more floods, there will be more hurricanes, there will be more tornadoes, but every step we can take to remove someone from the path of that devastation is a step we need to take. And I appreciate each of your dedication to doing that. Ranking Member Cantwell.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, as you mentioned, this hearing comes at an incredible time of human loss from the floods in Texas. And now we know in New Mexico and North Carolina, but I want to offer my condolences to the families who've lost loved ones in this unimaginable tragedy and to the people of Texas. We grieve along with you as a nation. Our thoughts and prayers do go to the families to ask for strength for them to deal with this incredible loss. And, as you said, there is a time and a place to figure out what transpired. For us in the Northwest, where natural disasters, whether it's fire, flooding, earthquakes, or the big one that is someday going to hit, this issue of first responders and communication is really important to us too. So, I too want to thank the National Guard for their incredible work in response to this incident. I want to thank the Coast Guard men and women. Pretty sure we trained those surfmen out on the Olympic, Long Beach area of our state, and we're very proud of what they do to get those men and women ready to help do the search and rescue. But, clearly, first responders did everything that they were asked to do in response to this flood. But, as you said, Mr. Chairman, there will be others. So, I agree that we should figure out what we can do in the future to improve our communication system, to improve the science behind the information, and to figure out how we best prepare for the future. Today, we're considering Dr. Jacobs to be the NOAA Administrator, Mr. Taylor to be the Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Environmental Observation and Prediction, and Mr. Kumar to be the Assistant Secretary. NOAA does play an incredible, important role in preserving life and property and, obviously, good data behind your weather reporting for sustainable fisheries to get food on the table, to support our domestic product. You play a critical role in safety and economic competitiveness. And so, obviously, I'm going to ask today about the cuts to NOAA and how, as a science agency, you preserve the core mission of an agency when we're cutting so much of the science in the science budget. The budget eliminates the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research R&D arm, which is critical to improving lead times and accuracy of information. NOAA's R&D is at the cutting edge of science and projects like Warn-on-Forecast, which will give communities more notice about tornadoes and other severe weather events by using prediction models instead of waiting to detect weather service that is already occurring. The budget proposal also eliminates NOAA's Integrated Ocean Observing System program, the buoy system. This is a very bipartisan program that helps us, particularly in the Northwest, in detecting the potential of tsunamis, hurricane forecast, fisheries, marine transportation. And even though the administration put out an executive order calling for growing American fisheries, I believe that we are doing the opposite if we're not investing in the kind of stock assessments that we need to deal with fisheries management. So, while the administration seeks to slash NOAA's budget, it's also taken a sledgehammer to its workforce. Since the start of the year, NOAA's workforce has been gutted by 2,000 employees. The agency currently has over 3,000 vacant positions, most of which cannot be filled due to the hiring freeze. For example, Pendleton, Oregon, the forecast office serving Central Washington, no longer has 24/7 local coverage because of their 44% vacancy rate. And in my opinion, that is unacceptable in the height of fire season. The hiring freeze also resulted in 160 vacancies at NOAA's research ships, resulting in 30% of those ships being left at the docks this summer instead of charting navigation in the Arctic, serving key weather buoys, and conducting stock assessments. So, for Washington, two pollock stock assessment surveys and one salmon survey have already been canceled. Now, what this means is that people can't fish. We don't have the science, they can't fish, we don't know. We're putting billions of dollars of economic activity at risk. So, the West Coast region of NOAA Fisheries has lost so many staff that we no longer have key experts to negotiate salmon or other treaties, and entire permitting teams are gone and local communities are begging for answers on these. So, I expect to hear how we're going to defend the science mission without the people and without the science to help deliver those essential services. I want to know what our real plan is that we're going to continue to protect our environment. Mr. Jordan, if confirmed, you will be responsible for advising the Administrator on weather, water, climate, and related matters. And I hope that you will tell us today how you also plan to counter cuts to the weather program and where you stand on the R&D investment that we need to improve forecast, such as supercomputing forecast. Climate change is driving more intense hurricanes, more frequent, severe atmospheric rivers, rain events, and is doubling the number of wildfires. According to NOAA, since 1980, we've had on average nine extreme weather events annually that have cost us over $1 billion each. So, from 1980, nine extreme events, but in the last 5 years, that has spiked to 23 events per year, and last year, it was 27 events. So, we can see that we're having more devastating impact and the cost to all of us. So, we're in a state of emergency that's getting worse and we need to come up with better solutions. So, we know how to do this. In 2015, as firefighters were fighting a devastating wildfire in Okanogan County and wind patterns changed, resulting in the loss of firefighters, we implemented new tools to help with the training of a new system that would help us get better information and get that information faster. I should also note that today the OIG for the Department of Commerce, Office of Inspector General, released a report on our National Weather Service tornado forecasting system and the things that they believe the office has gotten wrong in forecasting, the shortcomings of that system, and six plans for improvement, and so, we'll probably ask you about that as well. So, finally, Mr. Kumar, you'd be leading the Legislative Affairs Department. Simply put, the department's critical engagement with members of this committee is not happening at the level we need it to happen. So, I expect you will help fundamentally change that, if confirmed, and make sure that as members ask for information and data from the agency that they will receive it in a timely manner. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and again, our hearts are with you, your colleague Senator Cornyn, the many people of Texas, and we will work with you in whatever fashion we can to help move forward and to help Texans in any way, and obviously, our colleagues here on the committee from New Mexico and our colleagues in the larger body from North Carolina. But thank you so much.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and I want to say thank you to all my colleagues who have reached out on both sides of the aisle. I think collectively hearts are breaking across the country at what played out over the 4th of July weekend. Dr. Jacobs, you're recognized for your opening statement.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm honored to be nominated for the position of Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere. I'd also like to thank President Trump and Secretary Lutnick for their trust and confidence in me with this nomination. If I have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to working with all of you on the important work performed by NOAA. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in the devastating Texas floods. As a parent with two kids in summer camp right now, I can't imagine what these grieving families are going through. NOAA has an important, unique mission that spans the sea— the seafloor to the sun's surface. Not only do they conduct cutting-edge coastal and ocean research, but they also provide life-saving forecast predictions on a wide range of environmental phenomena. From 2018 to 2021, I served as Assistant Secretary for Environmental Observation and Prediction and later as Acting Under Secretary for Oceans and Atmosphere. During that time, I gained significant experience and understanding of NOAA's operations, and I developed a deep appreciation for the workforce. From issuing accurate forecast of complex weather events, managing fish stocks, mapping our coast, launching satellites into space, their dedication and professionalism is unparalleled. I have a very detailed understanding of what's involved in managing NOAA from the policy, budget, and personnel side to the needs and opportunities for innovative solutions to better meet mission requirements. I previously led the agency's effort to support scientific community through a focused improvement to its external engagement strategy. This culminated in the Earth Prediction Innovation Center, which brings together scientific expertise from federal partners, world-class researchers, and the private sector. I also understand that to be successful, NOAA must embrace new partnerships. In 2019, under my leadership, NOAA unveiled the Big Data Project, now called NOAA Open Data Dissemination, where the public has greater access to all NOAA data through partnerships with cloud service providers. Running a large agency with a public service mandate of protecting life and property during a pandemic was not something anyone could have been prepared to do. Under my leadership, NOAA rapidly changed and adapted operational protocols and accelerated onboarding of new technology like virtual environments for daily meetings, autonomous vehicles for acoustic surveys. Despite the pandemic, NOAA successfully met its mission requirements, including saving countless lives during the 2020 hurricane season, which had 30 named storms, 11 U.S. landfalls, shattering a record that had stood for over 100 years. If confirmed, one of my top priorities is to return the United States to the world's leader in global weather forecast modeling capability. As a matter of public safety, national security, and national pride, we will restore American technological superiority with this vital service for the country and our military serving around the world. This will require embracing new technologies, novel approaches, and partnerships with industry to advance global observing systems. Reducing the seafood trade deficit is also a top priority. The U.S. has an estimated $20 billion trade deficit in seafood. Much of it's due to unfair trade practices and import of aquacultured seafood, which is often mislabeled, and the lack of domestic processing capacity. In addition to promoting the production, sale, and trade of U.S. fishery and aquaculture products, embracing new technologies and science-based approaches to stock assessments will benefit both U.S. commercial fishing industry and the recreational fishing community. Leveling the playing field will also require cracking down on illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing. While advancing numerical weather prediction has dominated my career, the ocean is where I am most at home, whether I'm fishing, diving, or surfing. I began my career as a marine electronics technician and have spent the last 30 years guiding recreational saltwater anglers. I have a unique appreciation for the maritime industry and an extensive knowledge of coastal marine fisheries conservation spanning the Carolinas to the Florida Keys. If confirmed, it would be a tremendous honor to lead such a distinguished organization. I can assure the committee that I will do my best to ensure this team of scientists, engineers, forecasters, and uniformed officers have the resources and leadership needed to fulfill their mission of science, service, and stewardship. I would like to thank my family and friends for their support and encouragement along the way. I'd also like to thank the amazing people of NOAA for their dedication and service and for sharing their knowledge and passion with me during my previous tenure at NOAA. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity to be here.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Dr. Jacobs. Mr. Jordan, you're recognized for your opening statement.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am honored to be nominated for the position of Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Environmental Observation and Prediction by President Trump, and I also want to thank Secretary Lutnick for his support of my nomination. If I have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to working with all of you on the important work performed by NOAA in the areas of observation, data, and forecasting. I would also like to thank and recognize my fiancée, Minsu Crowder-Hahn, and my family watching from Texas: my mother, Cindy Jordan, and her husband, Scott Wright, as well as my father, Gene Jordan, my brother, Chris Jordan, and his family. As a born-and-raised Texan, I have had a lifelong fascination with weather. I grew up in Longview in East Texas, which has seen its fair share of severe weather impacts: tornadoes, straight-line winds, hail, lightning strikes. As a kid, every time the sirens would go off for a potential tornado, my father would first go outside and look up at the sky, which might be a uniquely Texan behavior, but I would head to my parents' closet to take shelter. I'd also like to take a moment to mention the floods in Texas this past weekend. As a Texan, this hits close to home for me and is a tragic reminder that weather affects Americans every day. If confirmed, I will work closely with the Secretary of Commerce and the NOAA Administrator to ensure the National Weather Service continues to provide weather forecasts that keep Americans out of harm's way. Collectively, I've had the privilege of working on NOAA issues for the last 14 years, and I have worked on these issues from three distinct vantage points: in Congress, at NOAA, and in the private sector. After graduating from the University of North Texas, I was fortunate enough to have an internship in D.C. for the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, where I first worked under Chairman Ralph Hall and then Chairman Lamar Smith. It was there on the committee where I learned about NOAA's mission and how their weather forecasting resulted in those sirens I always heard growing up. The forecast for those severe storms started with NOAA. I spent seven years on the House Science Committee working on issues related to NOAA and other civil science agencies. I was the lead author for the Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act, also known as the Weather Act. That bill was the first major piece of weather-related legislation in decades and gave NOAA tools to help it better achieve its mission of protecting lives and property. Many of the Weather Act's authorizations are still relevant today, and if I'm honored to be confirmed, I look forward to working with this committee to reauthorize this important piece of legislation. I also had the privilege of serving as a senior policy advisor to the NOAA Administrator from 2018 to 2020. In this role, I oversaw the implementation of the Weather Act and worked closely with NOAA's leadership and staff to provide accurate and timely weather forecasts. I also worked with NOAA line offices to help manage multibillion-dollar programs and acquisitions across the agency. Since 2021, I have worked in the private sector to advocate for programs and policies that support NOAA's mission and create meaningful partnerships. I have worked with private companies that provide NOAA with valuable weather data, contractors that provide technical and expert support services, scientists that contribute cutting-edge knowledge to our understanding of the Earth, and many others that support NOAA in various ways. Thanks to these experiences, I have developed a deep appreciation for NOAA's mission and its lifesaving information. NOAA operates in every state, forecasts for every location, and provides important and unique information across the country every day. NOAA achieves this through extensive observing networks and infrastructure, dedicated scientists and forecasters, and public-private partnerships. NOAA relies on expertise from our robust American science and technology ecosystem, from private companies, contractors, academia and universities, nonprofits, state, local, and tribal partners. If confirmed, it would be a tremendous honor to help lead such a distinguished organization of scientists, engineers, forecasters, and uniformed officers. I will work closely with members of this committee to ensure NOAA continues to provide accurate and timely weather forecasting to protect lives and property and safeguard the national economy. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you. I'd be pleased to answer any questions you have.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Mr. Kumar.

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and distinguished members of the Senate Commerce Committee, I'm honored to appear before you today as the nominee to serve as Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. I'm deeply grateful to President Trump for my nomination, to Secretary Lutnick for his leadership of the department, and to this committee for its consideration of my nomination. Before I begin, I want to express my deepest gratitude to those joining me here today, including my parents, Drs. Nat and Sukhu Kumar, whose unwavering support and example have profoundly shaped my commitment to public service, and my better half, Ally, whose love, encouragement, and support have been my foundation throughout this journey. I'm a native Texan who grew up in the Southeast Texas town of Beaumont. I was fortunate to be raised in a community that taught me the value of hard work, determination, and service, and I'm grateful to have the support of countless family and friends who have helped shape my journey to this point. My heart remains with my home state and to all those affected in the wake of last weekend's tragic events. I come before you filled with both humility and a strong sense of purpose. I believe my accumulated experience, including my prior work in legislative affairs at the Department of Commerce during President Trump's first term and as a staffer in this body, will serve me well in faithfully executing the responsibilities of the Assistant Secretary position. In previous roles across both the legislative and executive branches, I have worked to build bipartisan consensus, navigate complex environments, and strengthen the relationship between government and the communities it serves. If confirmed, I will bring that same approach to the Assistant Secretary role, grounded in transparency, responsiveness, and collaboration. The Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs plays a vital role in connecting the department's work with Congress, state and local governments, and tribal partners. If confirmed, I will focus on three key priorities: number one, timely responsiveness, prioritizing clear, proactive communication with members of Congress and their staff; number two, intergovernmental partnership, deepening coordination with governors, mayors, and tribal leaders to ensure that the opportunities and challenges facing communities are understood by the Commerce Department; and number three, bipartisan collaboration, working across the aisle to achieve the goals shared by all Americans, such as economic growth, revitalizing U.S. manufacturing, and protecting American innovation. Across the department's diverse mission, from supporting U.S. exporters and small businesses to safeguarding critical supply chains and our domestic seafood industry, success depends on strong relationships. I believe that effective public policy is built through engagement, trust, and shared accountability. If confirmed, I will work to ensure that the Commerce Department is a reliable partner to Congress and to governments at every level. In closing, I am deeply grateful for the committee's consideration of my nomination. I wholeheartedly believe in the mission of the Department of Commerce, which is to create the conditions for economic growth and opportunity for all communities. I look forward to working closely with members of this committee to strengthen that mission. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you very much. Dr. Jacobs, let's start with you. You and I discussed at length yesterday the flooding that occurred in Texas and the tragedy that unfolded. As the head of NOAA, which oversees the National Weather Service, if confirmed, what will you do to better ensure that Americans are aware of and able to respond to emergency weather warnings, especially those that that arrive in the middle of the night?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. As I said in my opening statement, numerical weather prediction and advancing that is a top priority. And the Weather Service did a great job, but there's a lot of things I would love to improve, obviously weather forecasting being one of them. I'd also love to advance and modernize NOAA Weather Radio. NOAA Weather Radio saved my life in 1996. There's a lot of other things we can do as far as communications, because as you said, even if the forecast is perfect, getting the warnings to the people, particularly at late hours of the night, is a challenge. I think we can do more advancements, moving away from copper wire, moving towards telecom, potentially satellite, to send out these messages. We also need more data and doing post-storm assessments. One of the things that I've envisioned, 'cause I've worked on several aviation accidents with NTSB, is something along the lines of what they do, but for weather disasters. 'Cause we need the data to understand what went right, what went wrong, whether people got the warnings, if they did or didn't, and if they did, did they not understand them?

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

You mentioned that NOAA Weather Radio had saved your life. Would you elaborate on that and tell us what happened?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I was at a campsite in Florida with some friends, and it issued a tornado alert, and it was about 10:00 p.m., and this was back before I had a cell phone or smartphone, and I took out a gazetteer, and I looked at the towns that it mentioned along the way, and I extrapolated the direction, which was right over where I knew we were. And so, I drove around the campsite and held my horn down and told as many people as I could to leave. And everyone left. We went further down the coast to a hospital and went into the emergency room because it was the closest brick building. When we went back to the campsite, it was nothing but bare dirt.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

In 2017, Hurricane Harvey devastated entire communities all up and down Texas's Gulf Coast. The damage to our state was well over $120 billion and may prove to be closer to $180 billion when all is said and done. Texans prepare for hurricanes and flooding by using NOAA's weather forecasts, but European numerical weather prediction models have been outperforming US models in forecasting. It's a question for both Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Jordan. If confirmed, how do you plan to close the gap and ensure that NOAA's forecasts are the best in the world?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Closing the gap is going to require a mix of collecting more and better observations, because these predictions are initial value problems. They all start from better observations, and then data assimilation. So the Joint Effort for Data Assimilation Integration— one of the reasons why the Europeans have a better model than the US is they use four-dimensional variational data assimilation. The US needs to advance its data assimilation work and also consolidate its modeling systems across resolutions of time and space.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Mr. Jordan

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

I agree with Dr. Jacobs. So, of the pillars of creating a weather forecast, you have model code development, you have observations, you have data assimilation, and you have supercomputing Computing or HPC to run the forecasts. As far as observations goes, we absolutely need to push the technology stack forward and ingest new sources of data, but the Europeans also have that same data. So what's the difference between the American modeling and the European modeling? Part of it is model code development and data assimilation. And I think we need a targeted investment into data assimilation to make sure that we can push that ball forward and have a better weather forecast.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Dr. Jacobs, one of the things you and I talked about yesterday was your vision for expanding cloud computing for weather forecasting. Can you describe what you envision there?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Sure. So, one of the things that I think is would be a tremendous leap forward for the National Weather Service is the system that they process the information on called AWIPS. They have to download the data locally, and the higher-resolution files get, whether it's data or model output, the longer it takes them to get that information. That's one issue. The other issue is they have to be behind the computer to do this work. And I think transitioning this software to the cloud so they're actually uploading the code instead of downloading the data, as well as having the ability to have a laptop so they can access it from anywhere, it not only improves their ability to get the data faster, but it would allow a forecaster from anywhere to do a forecast for anywhere.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

And so you were saying this would enable forecasters from the National Weather Service to embed in an emergency operations center and be right there on the ground in a crisis?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Correct. Yeah, they could literally work from anywhere. And so embedding in the emergency management centers, particularly during major weather events, would be really advantageous.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Okay, last question. It is an ongoing problem, particularly in South Texas, dealing with illegal Mexican fishermen, lanchas coming and and illegally fishing Texas red snapper. The Coast Guard fights against it. The federal government fights against it. This illegal fishing is actually paid for by Mexican drug cartels in in many instances. Dr. Jacobs, what more can NOAA do to combat the problem of illegal fishing in Texas?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I appreciate the question. IUU fishing, it's another top priority of mine. As you know, just recently 40 tons of red snapper were seized at a port in Brazil that were headed towards the U.S., as well as this last April, around 700 pounds of red snapper was seized just off of Brownsville from Mexican fishermen that were illegally fishing in U.S. waters. I think it's a mix of new technology. There are ways, when these boats turn off their transponders, to track them through satellites. I also think, as part of combating IUU, the Seafood Inspection Monitoring Program, beefing up that, actually looking at potentially not just for fishing, but aquaculture, things like shrimp that are brought into the U.S. A lot of people aren't aware, but almost all that shrimp is mislabeled. So, understanding the origins of the seafood,

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you very much. Ranking Member Cantwell.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following up a little bit on your line of questioning, since you approached this, certainly, Dr. Jacobs, as I mentioned in my opening statement, I'm concerned about the 27% budget cuts and particularly the Oceanic and Atmospheric Research organization itself and the people. But to get this right, following on Senator Cruz questioning, we had a less tragic event, but no less tragic event out on the Olympic Peninsula. The NOAA weather forecast service said, No, you don't need a Doppler. We're like, Yes, we do, because we have a mountain range that is blocking the information. NOAA Weather Service said, No, you don't. And we said, Yes, we do. And then we had a 100-year event that killed people and did unbelievable damage, and all of a sudden, NOAA weather forecasters said, Yep, we're going to help you. Actually, we helped get the Doppler. Now, we still have a community that we have information, but guess what? Every day we live there within threat of a tsunami, and we've built a tower, but that's it. There is no real coordination with that community. The bottom line here is we have beautiful places around the United States of America, and people want to go visit them and live there, and they do, but guess what? They are not the most resourced communities in our country. Then the question becomes, what do we do to provide the emergency response, whether it is fire or hurricane or tsunami or tornado? What do we do? Now, you mentioned the radio, and I want to get to that communication level. But I want to start with just the basic research, because at that same event, when we got the Doppler and we got the tower, I said, So now we're done, right? And they were like, No, we're not done. I said, Well, why is that? They said, Senator, because every particle in a storm is its own algorithm, and we could be computing this, and we could tell you 2 weeks in advance what the storm is likely to do if we put in the supercomputing time. So I have no idea why in heck our nation lets the European model get ahead of us. I have no idea why we do this when all we need to do is use Senator Blackburn supercomputing time at their national lab and put the resources behind it. So let's start with that. Should we be putting more resources into supercomputing time so we can predict storms further out?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, obviously, high-performance supercomputing, these physics-based algorithms need a lot of it. And one of the things, one of the priorities of mine is advancing numerical weather prediction. But one of the reasons why the American model was lagging the European model was not just lack of compute, but the code wasn't architected to run on certain computers.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

we're going to let somebody else— I'm not letting somebody else outcode us. Okay, trust me, coming from Seattle, I'm not letting— that's We This is all doable. It's about whether we have we have the resources and the investment, and I'm saying let's make the investment. Let's And you agree is what I'm trying to get at. You agree, let's put the investment into this.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

High-performance computing, cloud-based high-performance computing. Is critically important. Another thing I'd like to point out is once we transition that code to architectures that even industry could run, now we have private industry investing and developing the same code.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay, I'm look, I'm all I'm all for that, but I want you to maintain your role. And I think that the difference here is, and we do that, believe it or not. The University of Washington has probably helped this community plan for an eventual tsunami more than anybody has because they've outlined. So, it comes to the second point, which I just want to drill down on because we're having this problem now with not having these forecasters. The fire situation I mentioned, we woke up one day and looked, the meteorologist from NOAA said, Oh, I'm over in Seattle and this all, this is, here's totally different picture. Central Washington, because they didn't have a meteorologist in that region on the ground, predicted something else and sent people out. Sent people out and they died. And because the fire was too volatile given the high winds. So, we've been a big believer in having that local meteorologist and having that coordination when you know what the local weather event is going to be. So, you're not suggesting that we can do all of this some sort regionally or through the private

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

sector? No, no,

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

no Okay, I want to clarify this because this is what is going on now when we shortchange resources. And I don't want for fire season to be shortchanging resources. These events come up in very dramatic form and can happen, and we need the accuracy. And and the last thing is, I want to see, I hope, given all of my experiences, and we also, we've we've had a lot of natural disasters in the state of Washington. We had the Oso mudslide, which was also killed 40 people, a lot less planning to do there, but weather event information could have probably put data out to the community. But the point is, somewhere we all we all collectively have to come to a conclusion about what we are going to do when we have massive populations in communities that you actually have to have an implementation plan. So whose responsibility is that implementation plan? And so we see it all the time because the gap—NOAA says, Okay, well, I'm going to give you the information, and then it's a rural community and they don't have the plan. So as I said, University of Washington is filling that gap. So what can we do now that we've had 27 extreme events this year? What can we do to help communities get better plans?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, going back to your, to your Weather Service question, If confirmed, I will ensure that staffing the Weather Service offices is a top priority. It's really important for the people to be there because they have relationships with the people in the local community. They're a trusted source. I didn't mean to imply that this was going to be regionalized or anything. As I mentioned,

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

some people have suggested that the private sector, you could just do it in one location and I'm just trying to get to this point that this regional data and integration with the emergency responders is

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

critical. Oh, consolidating the data, not consolidating the people.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I would love for the people to be more embedded in the community.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Thank you. Thank you for that answer. Could you just tell me about stock assessments in salmon and pack surf and your commitment to that?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Stock assessments, obviously a huge priority of mine. If confirmed, I will do everything I can to get them back on track. I realize that it's a sensitive issue because without the quotas set properly from the stock assessment data, the fishermen can't fish. Very— it's a very important priority.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

And PACSIRF?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes. Pacific salmon, obviously critical to the culture, the economy, has my support. If confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity to advocate for

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

this. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Senator Moran.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_18

Mr. Chairman, thank you. And Kansans, we're all glued to the television, listening to the news, watching what transpired in Texas this weekend with great care and compassion, concern and sympathy. And I share that with my fellow Kansans. We're not immune from significant weather events ourselves. One of those weather events, Dr. Jacobs or Mr. Jordan, occurred in Kansas about a month ago. It was an EF-3 tornado. When that tornado occurred, the weather forecast offices in Kansas and across the country, some of them lacked 24/7 coverage given hiring freezes. I worked with NOAA and the Department of Commerce to lift that federal hiring freeze for meteorologists and other specialists to ensure uninterrupted service. Goodland, Kansas, which is on the Colorado line, the western part of our state, was short meteorologists because of that hiring freeze, and we're bringing in, or attempting to bring in, other meteorologists from other National Weather Service stations, forecast offices. I'm pleased the freeze has been lifted. Today's Politico Magazine has an article about that none of those positions have been posted for hiring. I don't know the veracity of that article, but can you bring any light to that in your past experience or what needs to take place once the hiring freeze is lifted that the positions are not yet filled?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I don't know the exact details of why that is because I'm not there yet, but I really appreciate you advocating to lift the hiring freeze and getting that done. Also appreciate your legislation to classify them as public safety. It's not a very quick process, but it's my understanding that the National Weather Service has direct hiring authority, which could expedite that, and also the potential to relocate people. So if confirmed, like I said, getting these offices staffed up will be a top priority.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_18

Well, Dr. Jacobs, if you see any opportunity for me and others on this committee or in our appropriations process to help speed that along, please let me know. And I was going to highlight for you what you already mentioned: Senator Peters, also a member of this committee and an appropriator, we've introduced legislation, as you mentioned, and I appreciate your statement of support as well as Mr. Jordan head nodding. So thank you. What can I— what could you tell me about the technology and capabilities? We have four weather forecast offices in Kansas: Topeka, Dodge City, Goodland, and Wichita. Would I expect that they would have the best technologies that are available and utilized across the country, or is there something different about rural Kansas, rural America, that would diminish the capabilities that our forecasters have because of technology and equipment?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I don't believe there's anything unique to your region that would limit the technologies or capabilities. My hope is that a lot of these technologies that would advance this are not just nationwide but global, because as we transition to a larger-scale model, global modeling system, to lengthen the forecast horizon, we're going to need these technologies collecting data worldwide.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_18

It's one of my goals, in light of what's transpired on a number of occasions, is to make certain that all weather national forecast centers have the latest best technologies and would work with you and NOAA to achieve that. We're also interested in NOAA and NWS radars that are nearing their end of their life. Several efforts are underway to recapitalize the system, including next-gen— next-generation radar. In addition to that, the Hurricane Hunter aircraft are essential tools for preparation for and preparing for severe weather and are in need of significant maintenance, repair, and overhaul or replacement. Would you plan, as NOAA administrator, to ensure these critical instruments are upgraded and replaced?

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Yes.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_18

And let me turn to Mr. Kumar. You've had you've had no questions this morning. You must be a good bridge builder. I noticed for your alma maters are two universities in the state of Texas that I know are not necessarily friendly to each other. So I look forward to you using those circumstances to allow Congress and the administration to work well together and Republicans and Democrats to reach good conclusions. What I want to highlight for you is the Department of Commerce, including NOAA, has not completed its spend plan for this current fiscal year, last year's fiscal year. So the appropriators do not have the data that is required by law for the Department of Commerce to provide us. And I would encourage you, if confirmed, to see if you can make that happen. And it's useful for us certainly in our oversight of the Department of Commerce, but also in helping make decisions about where to make investments and what's taking place at the department. So would you commit to me that you would see that the Department of Commerce, including NOAA, follows the law, and that the spend plan, to the detail that it's required by law to provide it to the Appropriations Committee, will be provided?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator. Yes, I understand fully the importance of spend plans, and if confirmed, I will make sure to work with you and your office to ensure that you all, you all are given the appropriate uh, information as requested.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Senator Kim.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Chairman. And Chairman, I just want to start by just expressing my deep sadness for the tragedy in Texas. Just really horrific. And as I'm a parent of a 7-year-old and 9-year-old, little kids that are going to camp this summer, I know so many parents and families are, I was just so heartbroken and feel shattered by what has happened. And I express the urgency of trying to figure out not only how we can better predict and have an early warning system, but how to get that information out to people as quickly as possible. In my home state in New Jersey, we suffered from Superstorm Sandy, from Hurricane Ida, other things like that. Dr. Jacobs, you and I talked about this briefly, but just building on what you talked to the chairman and others about these early warning systems, there's been talk about even using tech, even just using sirens similar to what we've done for tornadoes in this country. As far as I know, we don't do you know of any usage of sirens when it comes to flooding in the United States at this point?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Not to my knowledge, but I do know that some systems that have been deployed in Spain and France, they essentially network a flow meter to a siren, and if the flow rate exceeds a certain amount, it triggers a siren. Depending on where the upstream rain falls and the rate of rain rate, it doesn't give you a whole lot of lead time, but it's certainly better than nothing.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

Even just a few seconds or a few minutes, uh, you can make a huge difference. Is that something you would work with us here in Congress to, to think through and figure out how best to be able to deploy some of this?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

Another part of this in terms of being able to understand where flooding might happen and what communities are most vulnerable is about hydrological modeling. And I worry about this because in New Jersey, we've had concerns about whether or not we are up to date with the latest modeling. A lot of the models that we've seen sometimes use outdated data from decades ago. There's been talk about trying to invest in LiDAR technology, and I would like to get your thoughts on that, as well as whether or not that's something for the federal government to be able to take on.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I agree. I believe this is a federal mission. A lot of it right now, the capability state by state. So some states have more sophisticated data and flood inundation mapping than others. Hydrological modeling is extremely challenging and technical because you're essentially using one model to initialize another. So the hydrological model could be perfect in its equations, and if the atmospheric model puts the rainstorm in the wrong place, then the secondary model's not gonna be right. So that is critical, but the hydrological models, to be successful, need the most updated digital elevation And the only way I know to really get that data as accurate as possible is through LiDAR. So I think having access to LiDAR data to optimize that and having a nationwide flood inundation mapping capability would be very, very helpful.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

It doesn't seem to make sense to me that we would have each state do their own, right? I mean, it could create so much asymmetry in the data, but having like a baseline federal hydrological data that we can draw from, does that make sense to you? Am I thinking about it right?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

It does make sense. And, you know, it's if, if the capability stops at the state border but the roads don't, and you need to deploy assets on the other side of the state border, you need to actually have that information, especially

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

when it comes to hurricanes often affecting multiple states simultaneously. And am I correct that we don't necessarily have modeling that combines both the forecasting for hurricanes as well with the hydrological data? We don't have modeling that combines the two, which seems like that would be incredibly important. Is that correct?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

It is. So, I'll give you a great example of Hurricane Florence that made landfall in the Carolinas a few years ago. It put down almost 36 inches of rain, but it also was in one place for almost three days. And so, you have that storm surge and the water from the rain can't drain east because the winds are pushing it west. And those two models, the storm surge model and the hydrological models from the rainfall, need to be coupled.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I want to switch gears here. I'd like to just read a sentence here and get your thoughts on it. It's a quote, quote, uh, it's extremely likely that human activities, especially emissions of greenhouse gases, are the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century. For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence. I just wanted to get your thoughts if you agree with that statement or not.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Um, well, obviously there's a lot of, a lot of natural signals that are mixed in there too. And so in the absence of any natural signals that might dominate that, yes, there's human influences certainly there.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

So you see human influence being part of the concern when it comes to climate change, when it comes to extreme weather?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, yes, there's influence.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it's important for us to just be able to think that through because as we're trying to assess predictions and trying to do forecasts, it's important to understand causality. And so we're trying to understand what is causing the warming of ocean temperatures that affect hurricane strength and other aspects of this. So I just want to continue to make sure that we're pushing this forward, we're letting science drive our decision-making in so many ways. So I hope that that is something you can commit to if you're confirmed. Thank you. And I yield back.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Senator Kim. Senator Blackburn, you are recognized.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

Thank you. I appreciate that. And congratulations to each of you on your nominations. I know you will get through this process, and we look forward to having you confirmed and getting hard to work for the American people. Mr. Jordan, I want to come to you. And Senator Cantwell mentioned Oak Ridge National Lab, the supercomputing capacity, the fastest in the country. And of course, NOAA and Oak Ridge have had a partnership that they have been working on that, trying to do some modeling on predictions for disasters and severe weather events. And I think that these collaborations are important for the American people and for helping us to come past some of these extreme weather events and to be able to avoid some of the catastrophes that we have seen. We all have—are grieving for those families in Texas, and what a catastrophic loss. And then we just, late September last year, when Hurricane Helene stalled out there between North Carolina and Tennessee, and we had eight counties in Tennessee. We had rivers cresting as high as 29 feet, 20 feet, 19 feet, 15 feet, and tremendous loss of life. And we're still reeling, and the rebuilding is taking place. Debris removal is still taking place. So the impact is felt for years and years. It takes so much time to recover. So I want to return to some of these partnerships that can help us. And I would like for you to talk a little bit about how you would prioritize partnerships like the one between NOAA and Oak Ridge National Labs so that we are better able to predict what is taking place.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. So I agree, the partnership with Oak Ridge and NOAA is a very important one, and I look forward to working with you and the committee and NOAA to strengthen that partnership so that we can utilize the expertise at Oak Ridge to run our models and do the research to make sure we have the best forecast, and then again, as you were mentioning, push that information to local decision-makers to take action. We need to—

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

Okay, and drill down for a minute on that data transfer to these local EMS, these local first responders. They're always the first ones that show up. It's followed by the state and then followed by the federal government. But drill down on that partnership.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Absolutely. So thank you for that. So it's important to again get as close as possible to the local emergency managers, and in some instances Weather Service employees embed with emergency managers because they have the local expertise to know specifics of topography and how things can be affected.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

So you would encourage that embedding?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Yes, Senator.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

Okay, thank you. Dr. Jacobs, I want to come to you. Memphis, the lower Mississippi River is the lifeblood of barge traffic and port commerce not only for Tennessee, but also the entire Mid-South and the Mississippi River area. How would you ensure NOAA's forecasting tools for river navigation services and data, such as water-level forecasts, sediment mapping, navigation charts, and so that they're supporting the needs of the ports and the barge operators in the lower Mississippi River?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. The Ocean Service does an amazing job with their PORTS program as well as running a lot of models. The River Forecast Centers, the National Water Center run the water models for this, and there's a lot of development on coastal model as well as the gap sensors. I myself spend a lot of time using their data with my boat, so it's very, very important, very high priority.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

Okay, and I have one other question for you. Senator Cruz and I wrote to NOAA urging it to recognize the critical role of undersea cables and their necessity in our communications infrastructure. And the cables undergo rigorous state and federal permitting, as you're well aware, and they've proven time and again to have a minimal environmental footprint. So in response to those concerns, NOAA instituted a two-year pause on special use permits for submarine cables in newly designated marine sanctuaries so that it could review the category. And in line with this administration's efforts to streamline permitting, do you agree that NOAA should permanently exempt undersea cable deployment, maintenance, and repair from duplicative, sanctuary-specific permitting requirements that risk delaying infrastructure deployment and undermining our national resilience?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. I'm— because I'm not there, I don't have access to that information. But if confirmed, I would definitely love to learn more about it and, and support the priorities as best I can.

Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)SPEAKER_15

Thank you. I yield back.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Senator Blackburn, and I now recognize myself. First of all, thank you so much to the nominees for being here and your families. Dr. Jacobs, great conversation yesterday. I didn't share with you, but I assume you know this. I represent Delaware, which is the lowest mean elevation state in the country. So for us, Delawareans are deeply, deeply concerned about rising sea levels, inland flooding, and, like the rest of the country, extreme heat. It doesn't appear these things are going away. And so to me, it's vitally important the conversation you had with Senator Kim about making sure that this is science-based and that we recognize the impacts of climate change are a priority. And as I did share, I'm concerned about cuts to NOAA. Gutting NOAA is a costly mistake that Americans will pay the price through rising home insurance rates, destroyed communities, and, in some cases, their lives. And again, I hope there is a real focus on on this and that NOAA gets the support that it needs. And as the ranking member of the Coast Guard Maritime and Fisheries Subcommittee, I understand the role that NOAA plays in safeguarding our marine ecosystems, Systems supporting our coastal communities, and enforcing laws against illegal, unreported, and unregulated, or IUU, fishing. Right now, NOAA's capacity to do this work is under serious threat. The Office of Marine and Aviation Operations is currently short 180 mariners, and without an exemption from the hiring freeze, as was discussed, 30% of NOAA's research fleet will remain docked this summer. In a recent subcommittee hearing on IUU fishing, I asked the witnesses, Democrats and Republicans, what the impact of a 30% cut to NOAA's enforcement would mean for tracking and prosecuting illegal activity on the high seas, and the responses that all of them painted were very bleak. Dr. Jacobs, what is your plan to mitigate this loss of operational capacity, and how will you ensure NOAA can deliver on its scientific mission with such a reduced fleet?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. So I, I definitely understand your concerns. And I think it's, you know, if confirmed, I'll get in there and really take a look at the staffing levels because there's a difference between the wage mariners and the law enforcement when it comes to IUU fishing. And I also understand that the issue with the wage mariners and, and not having the hiring freeze lift is, is challenging, particularly in this market because it's so competitive with industry for the same jobs. So my approach, if confirmed, would be to focus on making sure that, that we try to get the wage mariner situation sorted out, as well as looking at other options. Potentially autonomous vehicles to do certain fish surveys if we can use those instead. So would definitely appreciate working with you on this.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

Look forward to it as well. Mr. Kumar, as the nominee of the Office of Legislative Affairs, you'll serve as the primary liaison to Congress. It's such an important role, and one of your core functions is to ensure timely and substantive responses as we exercise our oversight role on behalf of the American people. I have to say, I've been frustrated by the lack of response of letters that I've sent in the last 6 months. I've sent eight letters to the Secretary of Commerce on a variety of topics, from the implementation of the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program to the abrupt restructuring of the Minority Business Development Agency, but I haven't received a substantive response yet. I'm just going to ask, are you familiar with the letters that we sent to the department?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator. Yes, I am at a high level. Yes,

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

at a high level. And I wanted to know, when do you think I could receive a response? Or do you— is this going to be a priority of your job?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Yes, if confirmed. As I said in my opening statement, I understand fully the importance of timely information being provided back to the committee and its members. I know MBDA, I know there's broad active litigation going on, but even in those instances, I'd like to at least be able to communicate what we can and can't say on a matter, and making sure you're getting information back.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

So I brought the letters with me, so I'll give them to you afterwards, because I'd really love some substantive responses, not the kind of form-letter response. Would love to follow up with you on that, should you be confirmed. And Dr. Jacobs, just to pivot back to seafood fraud and mislabeling, I have some questions for you, but what specific steps would you take to strengthen NOAA's efforts to combat seafood fraud? And what role should technology, traceability, and interagency enforcement play in the efforts?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, as far as technology goes, one of the things that I found pretty interesting is a lot of these vessels—and sometimes they're flagged under other nations—will be fishing in our EEZ. They'll turn off their transponders, come in, illegally fish in our waters, and then go back out. And we can actually see them on satellite imagery. So there's a way to trace them down. And working potentially with the Navy and the Coast Guard on this, I think, would be would be great. As far as the actual import monitoring, one of the things that I've been interested in is actually doing genetic analysis on certain seafood products, because we can trace the origins of it then.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_11

I want to end with something we discussed in my office, which was the Sea Grant program. I think it's a vitally important program, particularly for communities across this country, including U.S., Puerto Rico, Guam. It's one of those things that really helps the communities. You talked about the big data. If we have the data, but people don't understand how they can apply it and use it, how it could help with economic development, how it could help with resiliency and making sure that our communities are safe, it does us no good. And so, in our meeting, I was pleased to hear you say this program is awesome. Those were your words—awesome. And so, I am imploring you to make sure that this program is protected because, again, it does so much for our local communities, for our business opportunities, and really to make sure that folks are safe. And so, I thank you for that. I am actually going to yield back time myself, and I will follow up with additional questions. But I will now recognize Senator Capito.

Senator Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)SPEAKER_16

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all for being here, for your willingness to serve. And I would like to start with Dr. Jacobs. Thank you again for our meeting yesterday and our previous meetings in past years. We talked about NOAA's Environmental Security Computing Center, NESCC, in Fairmont, West Virginia, at the tech park, in the I-79 Tech Park. And as you know, that center received $100 million for the high-performance computer called Rhea to support NOAA's widespread adoption of AI. The I-79 Tech Park in Fairmont is a unique asset for NOAA and the broader adoption of AI. The park houses the supercomputing operation with the high-performance computers named Hera and Rhea. I like that they're female names, but I'm just—it's just me. And Rhea should be operational by 2026. I won't ask you to comment on that. Rhea will be operational in 2026. What is your vision? Obviously, we hear AI in every single aspect of testimony no matter what we're talking about, whether it's finances or healthcare, whatever, and we see this also at NOAA. What is your vision for the institutionalization of AI at NOAA, and how would you use these assets that I've referenced?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Very much appreciate the question. And it's great to see that HPC finally get installed and operational, because the last time I was at NOAA, we actually got half of that data center built out.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Right.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I think there's a lot of opportunity with AI. Everywhere from like improving some stock assessments in fisheries to also in numerical weather prediction. So right now there are AI-based models that just completely replicate the entire modeling system. They're trained on the physics-based models. So there's still a need to run the physics-based models. But there's, there's also aspects of AI that can be used inside the physics-based models where the AI systems replicate some of these physical algorithms. And the exciting thing to me is they can do it in a fraction of a second. So what 5 years ago would take 30, 40 minutes, we can do now in a second or 2. And I think doing a lot of that development work, particularly on that system, would be a really good use of it.

Senator Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)SPEAKER_16

Well, thank you. Do you feel that NOAA has the support to have a sufficient procurement process now to access the quality datasets and improve the data storage? We talked about going to the cloud and a lot of other things the other day. Do you feel like the procurement system is going to allow NOAA to move in this direction as rapidly as it needs to be?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

So there's an interesting dynamic, I think, unfolding because a lot of the data that NOAA has is really sought after by private industry. And the data that NOAA has is obviously freely available to the public, but private industry may pay a cloud service provider to crunch the numbers. So when we would process the data on an HPC system and then host it in a data center, like a commercial cloud service provider, they're actually offering to host the data for—and sometimes free, petabytes of free storage—and pay for the egress, for the download, because they can also charge industry to process the data.

Senator Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)SPEAKER_16

Right, so that gives you a little more flexibility with that. I'd like to pivot to the to the storms in Texas and the weather predicting, and obviously, I live in an area that has is prone to rapid flooding like that, but the tragedy that we see in Texas is like nothing that I I can It's unimaginable for many of us. I think a lot of it, and I think it's all the aftermath of community engagement, community warning systems. How can that be improved? How can And I know not necessarily in that specific area simply because it's probably too early to assess that, but generally speaking, there's still gaps. And, and I think I'm sure this is something that you think about. You shared with me that you have two a 9-year-old and 11-year-old daughter, I believe, so you're feeling this as well. Do you have any comments on that?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

It's— so coming from a background of numerical weather prediction, I always thought naively that if I could improve the forecast skill, I would save more lives. And it turns out that it's really the last mile. If even if you have a perfect forecast, if you can't get the information to the people, it's totally useless. And so having a way to distribute the watches and warnings, and particularly in regions that don't have good cell coverage,

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

right,

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I think there's an opportunity to modernize NOAA Weather Radio and then potentially also look at some satellite capabilities, some CubeSat-based data transmission that that wasn't really an option a couple of years ago. And so I think probably an all-the-above approach in modernizing the way to distribute these watches and warnings is something that is going to be a top priority of mine.

Senator Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV)SPEAKER_16

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

Senator Luján, you are recognized.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Madam Chair. And to my brothers from Texas, my deepest condolences for for all that's happened, and for all the lives that have been lost and families that have been impacted, and to to everyone that has been on the ground with all those first responders, all the volunteers just helping those families. As my colleagues may know, unfortunately, in New Mexico yesterday, the Rio Ruidoso rose to nearly 20 feet in a matter of minutes amid heavy rainfall, sweeping away homes, if you can believe that, in the flows. And we've already lost loved ones out that way. This is an area that was also ravaged by wildfire not too long ago, as we've all had conversations about what needs to be done with FEMA and others with wildfire and then the flooding that follows for years and years to follow. Now, today we have witnesses that hope to serve at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA, which oversees the National Weather Service, which provides critical forecasting data that Americans rely on to protect their lives. We also know that emergency alerts and the work of NOAA and the National Weather Service does save lives. I appreciate your response, Dr. Jacobs, to the question from Senator Capito. However, Project 2025 has outlined a plan to commercialize the forecasting, which would force American taxpayers to pay private companies to access weather forecasts. Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Jordan, yes or no, do you think Americans should have to pay to access forecasting data to protect the safety of their families and homes from natural disasters? Dr. Jacobs?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

No, I, I think that that's an essential service that, that all Americans deserve.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Mr. Jordan?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

I agree, no.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Dr. Jacobs, in late May, I sent a letter to the National Weather Service, along with several of my colleagues, regarding the National Weather Service's decision to discontinue translations of weather alerts and forecasts into languages other than English. Those services have now been restored. This created a dangerous gap in access to emergency information for those nearly 68 million people in the United States that speak a language other than English at home. Yes or no, do you agree that people deserve to get emergency alerts in the language that they can understand? Yes. Yes or no, do you commit to ensuring that this lapse in translation doesn't happen again?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

If confirmed, making sure that, that the watches and warnings go out and they're understood. It was definitely a priority.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Appreciate that. On September 1st, 2019, when you were NOAA's acting administrator, President Trump erroneously tweeted that Alabama had been hit hard by Hurricane Dorian. Shortly after, the National Weather Service Birmingham office issued the accurate statement, quote, "Alabama will not see any impacts from Dorian." Three days later, President Trump went on TV and displayed a weather map altered with a black Sharpie line to show that Dorian would hit Alabama. Two days after that, you helped draft a release, an unsigned NOAA statement rebuking the Birmingham NWS and repeating President Trump's baseless claim that Hurricane Dorian could impact Alabama, where you told the Department of Commerce Office of Inspector General in their investigation that you, quote, "definitely felt like our jobs were on the line," close quote, and while you did not like it, you would make the same decision again to edit a less inflammatory statement as the least bad option. Mr. Jacobs, or Dr. Jacobs, do you—do I have it right? Is that correct?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Um, that, that's what the IG report found, yes.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

That you would do nothing differently?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Um, I mean, there's probably some things I would do differently, and there's a lot of things that I did after that to, you know, I guess change any potential future outcome. One of them was— let

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

me ask these questions, because I just had people, constituents, die in New Mexico. We had constituents die in Texas. Would you sign off on an inaccurate statement due to political pressure in the same event? Yes or no?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, no.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

I appreciate that very much. Mr. Kumar, Congress appropriated over $68 million to MBDA under the most recent funding bill. But now Secretary Lutnick and the Trump administration have dismantled the MBDA, ignoring the law Congress passed in 2021. When Deputy Secretary DeBar was before this committee in May, he committed to, quote, "follow every dollar and report back" to this committee regarding the status of MBDA. I have a letter here that I plan to send to the Deputy Secretary, holding him to this commitment and asking a series of questions regarding MBDA funds and grants. Mr. Kumar, if confirmed, will you— if confirmed, you'll be responsible for overseeing the department's responses to Congress, yes or no?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Uh, thank you for the question, Senator. Yes, I will be.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

So yes or no, will you commit to me that my colleagues and I will have the report Deputy Secretary DeBarr promised regarding the status of MBDA funds and complete answers to other questions within two weeks of your confirmation, if not before?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question. If confirmed, I will go back to Deputy Secretary DeBarr on the letter you mentioned.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

We'll get a response within 2 weeks?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Uh, I will, I will make sure to get with him right away and try to provide as timely a response as possible.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

As timely response, less than 2 months?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for that. I will do my best to get it in the stated timeline.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Less than 6 months?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Uh, that again, I will do my best to get it to you in the stated timeline.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's challenging when given, uh, an amount of time to respond timely, when all of these witnesses take oaths that they will respond timely to this committee. But when we even extend that time, that a simple answer of yes is just— cannot be found. It's frustrating. Um, thank you for the time, Madam Chair.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

I recognize myself for 5 minutes, and I want to start by sending my condolences to the gentleman from New Mexico and our chairman from Texas, both of whom have endured significant flooding and loss of life. And Senator Luján, our condolences to you and your constituents, and as well as as Senator Cruz and his constituents. Such a such a tragedy in in both cases. Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Jordan, welcome. And Mr. Kumar, welcome. Your relevant experience in weather operations and atmospheric science policy is noted. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Look forward to your service for the American people at the National Weather Service. I come from Wyoming. In Wyoming, the weather is the news. I'm also a rancher, and so the first thing we look at in the morning is the weather, cuz it affects every move we make. And that is true for a lot of people in Wyoming, whether it's a closed road because it's icy, the weather turning for people who are recreating in Wyoming, people who want to know what the snowpack is in Jackson Hole at the mountain resort or at Targhee, when blizzards are rolling in and you might get trapped in your home if you don't get your vehicle out right away. I mean, these are all real-life, every day occurrences for Wyoming people. The weather is the news. So I've been in tornadoes in Wyoming, flooding, hail, wind, lightning. I know people who've been struck by lightning. I remember dealing with I was laying with my brother in an irrigation ditch while it was raining really hard, because while I was on the baler and he was on the windrower, a tornado came and literally took the hay up into the air that we were trying to bale and windrow. And so we're laying there, getting hailed on in an irrigation ditch, trying to stay out of the tornado. Amazing experiences. I mean, that's that's life in Wyoming with the weather. So I want to talk to you specifically about how important the National Weather Service is to Wyoming. We have two major National Weather Service facilities. One is in Riverton, which is kind of in central Wyoming, and the other in Cheyenne, which is southeast. Now, a decision was made to close overnight service in Cheyenne and route evening coverage through Riverton. So the closure is from 1:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. I'll I want to visit with you after you're confirmed about this a little more. You know, that's about, I don't know, 250 or 300 miles difference between Riverton and Cheyenne. It's as different as night and day in terms of the weather experience. And it would be extremely helpful if we could have a presence in that Cheyenne Weather Service facility. Wyoming is vast. We have almost 100,000 square miles, multiple mountain ranges, tremendous topographical and elevation differences. Weather conditions are very, very local. My sister can get hailed out on her farm, and I'm just hunky-dory just 30 miles or 40 miles away from her. So the weather is a significant factor in our economy, and in our survival, and in our health and well-being. So I do want to work with you on the the Cheyenne-Riverton issue as well as other issues regarding the National Weather Service and its ability to serve the people of this country. So, quick question, now that I've been on my soapbox: What role do you see technology playing in addressing current forecasting challenges? And how would you balance the ability of technology to serve versus human forecasters? Dr. Jacobs.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. So I've been to that Cheyenne office,

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

Oh,

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

good. And one of the fascinating things they told me that I hadn't thought of as a forecaster is one of their big concerns are high wind events. Absolutely. And they're actually worried about 18-wheelers getting blown off the highway, which to me seems like pretty high wind.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

I've seen it happen. I've seen them blow over on Interstate 25.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yeah, to answer your question, I think the use of technology is probably a mix. Technology, well, maybe like a 3-pronged mix. So using new technology, whether it's space-based or in situ systems like drones to collect observations to build a dataset of better initial conditions is going to improve the models. Then A lot of compute architecture. CPUs are almost phased out. We're looking at GPUs now, other types of chips to optimize that using AI. And then on the back end, as we've been discussing today, using different types of technologies and capabilities to more rapidly and effectively distribute the watches and warnings.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

Mr. Jordan, do you have a comment on that?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. I would agree with Dr. Jacobs, but also want to mention that, in addition to technology, and moving next-generation technologies into the the stack of what NOAA uses for weather forecasts is important, and technologies like AI are going to help the the forecasters do their job, but the the people in the offices at the local level who understand how wacky the weather can be sometimes is extremely important.

Senator Cynthia Lummis (R-WY)SPEAKER_13

Yeah, wacky is right. It's both a scientific and real-life term that we all understand. So, if confirmed, I'd ask that you review the National Weather Service arrangements in Wyoming from a weather accuracy and safety standpoint. I want to thank you for meeting with my staff yesterday. I look forward to working with you both, and my time is up. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes Senator Klobuchar.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to my colleagues who are here. We all are heartbroken over the loss of life, the kids at the camps, the people in both Senator Cruz and Senator Luján state. And I think that we all know this is not an isolated incident. We can pretend it is, but it is not. Extreme weather events like this one have been getting worse and worse all over our country, and we must ensure that NOAA, this hearing couldn't be more timely, and the Department of Commerce as a whole is ready and able to take this on. As we know, as has been repeated by my colleagues, NOAA has lost at least 1,875 employees, totaling a combined 27,000 years of experience and institutional knowledge, and now has over 3,000 vacant staff positions at the very worst time. So, I know, Dr. Jacobs, you responded to Senator Cantwell—Ranking Member Cantwell questions about confirming that staffing is a priority at the National Weather Service. In May, NOAA started reassigning employees because of the loss of employees to NWS. And if confirmed, how do you make sure that these employees have the necessary technical expertise, and how do you plan to recruit additional employees when the message from this administration, honestly, has been, please leave, we'll give you buyouts, we want you to leave? How are you going to turn that around?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, I guess maybe it's probably a multi-pronged approach. Obviously, one of them would be the reassignments. Lifting of the hiring freeze is certainly going to help. As far as recruiting, I'm optimistic as a former teacher of a lot of former students of mine who are actually Weather Service employees now that I can appeal to their sense of mission, that this is important. Ensuring that Americans have timely and accurate forecasts to protect lives and property is something that appeals to people. This is why they go in to study meteorology.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

So you're going to commit to making sure they get this accurate information?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Okay. And I guess along those lines, Mr. Jordan, I just addressed these stronger storms that we know are a scientific fact, warming climate, and if confirmed, will you advocate against attempts to limit information sharing on the impacts of climate? Because I don't know how we're going to respond to these storms if we pretend it's not happening.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. So yes, I would let the science drive the decision-making.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Okay, very good. And how will you ensure that NOAA is able to maintain and improve its extensive observing networks and infrastructure that you mentioned in your testimony?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. So in the planning of these major acquisitions, these observing networks, These are large-scale items that span many fiscal years. It's important to ensure that we don't have gaps in those systems, our satellites and likewise. Working with the department and in Congress here to ensure that there's funding to continue those programs.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. When I first got to the Senate, I was on the Ocean Subcommittee, Dr. Jacobs, and I realized I was the only one without an ocean on the subcommittee, but then I remembered it also included the Great Lakes, and we have Lake Superior, which is of course superior to any ocean. So we have incredible research going on out of Duluth with our Great Lakes observing center. We have incredible research going on through the Minnesota Sea Grant and education. And so I just want people to remember that the inland lakes—we have more than 10,000, despite our license plate, we have 15,000—we have Lake Superior. This research is also important. Could you address that and whether you will support the continuation of these inland Sea Grants?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yeah. So actually, the lakes are a big driver in weather, like lake effect snow and things like that. And also, I know that the harmful algal blooms are really important for folks in the lakes. So continuing that research, obviously, if confirmed, is very high priority.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

Okay, very good. Thank you. Just last, Mr. Kumar, I, like many of my colleagues, have addressed letters. Specifically, Representative Clyburn and Senator Luján and I led a letter about the BEAD Program. It was a more recent one, but there's ones going back. And if you will commit to get these letters answered.

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator. If confirmed, yes, I will commit to making sure to work with my colleagues to get you accurate and timely responses.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

And last, Secretary Lutnick announced that the Trump administration is going to relaunch the Tech Hubs Program. He and I discussed this when he was in my office. I also discussed it with the deputy. And they're going to plan a new round of selection in early 2026. We are one of the tech hubs in Minnesota, but we did not get funded despite being one of the premier—this is back in time, as you know, places for medical device development and the like and in the Midwest or in the entire country. Will you work with me and my staff to look at the MedTech 3.0 Program in Minnesota?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator. Absolutely. If confirmed, I know our EDA team is very active on working with offices to make sure they have the most up-to-date information on the on the new competition and would be happy to to work with your office.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_00

And then just last, not a question, I'll put it in writing, Rural Export Center, which is out of Fargo, but I'm always friends with our neighbors, and a big priority for me and Senator Hoeven. So I hope you'll look at that as well. Thank you.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Senator Young.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

Welcome, all. Dr. Jacobs, my colleagues have talked about the benefits emerging technologies can provide, for instance, how quantum computing can better track and predict the movements of severe weather patterns, how AI may predict when another event may occur, and others, other applications. I'm working on reintroduction of several bills with my colleagues, and the impetus is advancing our technological leadership and capabilities in emerging technologies. Outside of what's been discussed here already, what other benefits do these emerging technologies promise to deliver, and how do you plan to work across the department and other executive agencies, as applicable, to make sure these deliverables are recognized?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, thank you for the question, Senator. So, um, one of the things that we haven't talked about today that I think is really fascinating and I would love to be a focus is edge computing. And I say that because as the satellites on orbit become more sophisticated and the sensors have higher resolution data, the files become larger. And downlinking those files takes time, moving that data takes time, and weather is a very time-sensitive capability to do these forecasts. So we have to get the data as fast as we can. And to the extent that it's possible to do edge computing on orbit to process that data before it's downlinked, I think would be a huge step forward.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

What do you anticipate needs to be done in this area? Is that— do we need to assemble kind of a strategy to, uh, or, uh, a, a broader effort? I'll, I'll let you explain. So unpack for us what needs to be done.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I think some of this can be tested on the ground. I also think that there's a lot of capabilities that have been developed on the classified intel side where the data itself might be classified, but the process of, of compressing or sending the data might not be. So to repurpose those on the civil side would be an interesting thing I would like to work on.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

Would you work with me on that priority? Absolutely. should you be confirmed? Okay, great. I'm a member of the Intelligence Committee as well as the Commerce Committee, so there may be some synergies there. Thank you. Continuing with you, Doctor, I'd like to turn to IUU fishing. Illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing, or IUU fishing, isn't just an environmental issue, though it is, of course, that. It also undermines our economic security and our national security. It affects American fishermen, especially in the Gulf of America, who are often competing with illegally operating Mexican fishing vessels. In addition, we have to contend with a broader pattern of illegal maritime activities by state and non-state actors from the People's Republic of China and Russia. They continue to engage in unregulated fishing that will impact our allies and the rest of us in a negative way. And so it's our responsibility to protect American fishermen from these violations, to hold other nations accountable to the same standards of maritime law and sustainability that we uphold. How do you plan, Doctor, on coordinating with offices and other departments or agencies like the State Department or Coast Guard to effectively counter this issue at home and abroad?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. So countering this is a huge priority. Obviously, seafood competitiveness and reducing the seafood trade deficit is a big priority, so combating IUU is essential to accomplishing that. Would love to work, if confirmed, with the Coast Guard, with the Navy, particularly in the Pacific, where there's a lot of false flag vessels doing illegal fishing in our EEZ and other countries' EEZs where they're not flagged to be fishing, tracking these ships when they turn off their transponders traveling around. A lot of times there's other sort of nefarious things like human trafficking that's going along with this IUU, as well as, we were mentioning earlier, the poaching of red snapper in the Gulf of America. That's a huge issue, and working with the State Department on that, and also potentially exploring other technologies not just for the fishing aspect, but for the imports, because there's a lot of things that are being imported that we really need to take a close look at—mislabeling, things like that, as far as imported seafood.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I, I think you hit on, uh, an important but often under-discussed component of this, which is the businesses themselves. It's that will supply us seafood. They need to bring more transparency to their supply chains and, you know, ensure that they're not procuring seafood that has been obtained illegally. Um, but I, I hope to work with you on this as well. Do you commit to doing so? Should you be confirmed?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

If confirmed, absolutely.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

Okay. And then lastly, how do you see regional fisheries management organizations, or RFMOs, fitting into this equation? Is there an opportunity to reform or push these organizations to more effectively combat IUU fishing throughout the world when origin countries refuse to prosecute illegal fishermen, even with overwhelming evidence of their activities?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Definitely RFMOs. Working through the RFMOs to ensure that other countries enforce their laws is really important. And also working through the RFMOs to ensure that we have a fair quota set for US fishermen, very important.

Senator Todd Young (R-IN)SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Dr. Jacobs. Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to each of you for your willingness to go back into the arena, as it were. Let me ask you each a question just to start. Obviously, natural disasters cost the US over $182 billion in damages last year alone. NOAA is a hugely important institution. I think everyone's questions recognize that and reflect that. So just as a thumbs up or thumbs down, recognizing nothing stays the same, do you think we're spending too much money in the science, the research around NOAA, or are we spending too little? Why don't you start, Dr. Jacobs? We'll go right down the road.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I think it probably depends on the area of research and working with private industry. As a whole? Yeah.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

I don't need a polemic, but just as a whole, are we spending too much or too little?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Oh, I don't know that you could spend too much on the research.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

That's a good answer.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. It's a difficult question to answer how much across the federal government spending on science activities, but I'd say it's a good thing to fund.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

Right. I was thinking more just about NOAA. I realize the federal government, I wrestle with that as well. And certainly science isn't perfect. Science is full of second-guessing and always trying to get better. As you all know, it's not a perfectly precise study, but it's crucial.

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator. I'm the nominee to run Leg Affairs, so I defer to my colleagues here that are NOAA nominees, but certainly appreciate the importance of funding research.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

Great. All right, we've talked a lot about our ability to forecast natural disasters and how important that is. And I do agree the last mile that both of you or both of the doctors brought up is is critical, but I also believe in incremental improvement. And I think especially with better computing, we'll be able to get that recognition of when there is a potential flood event. Our heart goes out to the people in Texas and New Mexico. Unbelievable the tragedy that happened there. But four hours more, even with our not insufficient last mile, how do we get information to those groups in time, that extra four hours could make a huge difference. So, I look at the importance of getting data and and having it there and working with that data, and yet, it appears that we're having— we're going to stop collecting data and or storing data and using data in certain places, most specifically the National Centers for Environmental Information that tracks natural disasters. Is that something that you, Dr. Jacobs, are are concerned about? Are you willing to commit to restoring and updating NOAA's database? Because, to me, that's the foundation that so much of your work is built upon.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yeah If confirmed, definitely ensuring that that data is archived and easily accessible by the public, the research, the science community is an essential function of NOAA.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

Right. And at some point, we'll get to, in terms of predicting disasters, be able to incorporate soil moisture, soil conditions, all these other variables that have such a powerful effect. And, Mr. Jordan, again, obviously NOAA has invested in satellites, delicate instruments to measure ecosystems of all types, to forecast weather, issue warnings. In terms of the satellites, do you have concerns about the recent efforts to limit the costs around that collection of data and making sure that the recent announcement, the Defense Meteorological Satellite Program, is going to terminate data collection and the sharing of that data later this month? That's you, Dr. Jacobs. Sorry.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Oh, I

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

was just asking about the Defense Meteorological

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yeah, so, so DMSP for decades has been a really important program. It's my understanding that the funding for this was terminated back in 2015, but the atmospheric science community has had the benefit of these sensors that have lasted well beyond their lifespan. And there's a couple of ways to backfill this. So first of all, the sounding data, there are other instruments that NOAA operates from AMSU-A, ATMS. I think what's probably of more interest in the hurricane forecasting community is the imager data, so the microwave imagers. So there's a follow-on program to this. It's my understanding, and again, I'm not in the agency yet, but I still know a lot of this because I work with the community, the follow-on program, they already have an asset on orbit. It's producing data. I believe NOAA is going to get access to that pretty soon. I also think that there's potentially other capabilities out there. So like the European Space Agency has some of these assets as well, so data sharing. So yeah, it's extremely important.

Senator John Hickenlooper (D-CO)SPEAKER_07

Appreciate that. And I'm out of time, but I won't be able to come back for a second round of questions, but I'm going to submit in writing some of the questions about the cooperative institutes that you guys all work with that I think are so important. We have a couple, Colorado State University, University of Colorado, where you've got the institutions and graduate students and PhDs all working together kind of helping you expand your effort. And then also the fire weather testbed that NOAA has based in Denver to increase wildfire resilience by researching and doing all that work around wildfire. So God bless you all for all your work. It is so crucial to the safety and of most of our—well, all of our country. I yield back to the chair.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Senator Fetterman.

Senator John Fetterman (D-PA)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello Dr. Jacobs. Hi. Uh, I mean, I'm I'm from Pennsylvania, and I'm sure you're familiar with Lake Erie. I love Erie. Erie's a very special part of my state. And now for me, Lake Erie is such an incredibly important economic engine and major, major cultural amenity for Pennsylvania. Tourism in Erie brings in over $1.2 billion and supports more than 15,000 jobs. And now for me, the tourism, it's driven because of the beauty. If anyone in here in the room has ever been to Presque Isle, and it's one of the most remarkable parks in the country, and I'm not saying that as just a booster, I'm saying that it actually is true. And my family swims in Lake Erie, so we have a lot of skin in that game too. So protecting and making Erie more and more clean and pure. So for me, NOAA's Office of National Marine Sanctuaries is working to designate Lake Erie as a National Marine Sanctuary. And of course, I fully support that, and I know people that live in Erie support that. And today I was just asking to see if you support that or would like to commit or work with my office to see this happen quickly.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Um, if confirmed, I'd love to work with you in your office on that.

Senator John Fetterman (D-PA)SPEAKER_14

Right, that's, that's wonderful. And then, now, some people, maybe my colleagues, may not aware of lake effect snow, so I'm an amateur, so I would describe it as when when colder air sweeps over warmer water of Lake Erie, and that can drop 3 ft of snow really in a short amount of time. Is that accurate?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, your science is correct. There's, there's— it's heat flux driven.

Senator John Fetterman (D-PA)SPEAKER_14

Yeah, yeah. So for me, and now if you live in Erie, 18 inches doesn't even make the news really, rarely. And that's, I mean, I live in Pittsburgh. We don't even—it's so different. It's very, very specific to that region because of lake effect snow. And if you are from Arizona, you're like, I have no idea what that means. But, you know, I remember there is one Christmastime that I think 50, 55 inches dumped on Erie quickly in about 24 to 36 hours. So, of course, NOAA is very important. So for me, and it's been brought to my attention that the National Weather Service that oversees Erie doesn't have a meteorologist. So, and I believe that. So for me, even if it's like a part-time thing, I think it's reasonable when you can have 3 feet of snow from those things. So I'm just saying perhaps I support having a meteorologist, even part-time, from a savings perspective for there, so just if you have any thoughts.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Um, I, I don't know the exact staffing levels at your office, but, um, I'll definitely get back to you on the numbers. And if, if confirmed, I definitely commit to making sure it's staffed up.

Senator John Fetterman (D-PA)SPEAKER_14

Yeah, great. That's great. And, uh, and, uh, I actually, I yield. Okay. Thank you.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Senator Markey.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For decades, NOAA has collected and made public information on how many extreme weather-related disasters caused by more than $1 billion worth of damage. In the 1980s, the US experienced a weather or climate disaster that caused more than $1 billion in damage every 4 months on average. Now, in our climate change era, our communities are hit by a disaster of that magnitude on average by every 3 weeks. So, Dr. Jacobs, I appreciated our conversation on this yesterday. Do you stand by your statement that you made to me yesterday that NOAA's data on billion-dollar disasters should be made available to the public?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

So the data that NOAA collects to produce that, yes, I think that that's a really important thing.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

Now, thank you, and that's great to hear. Back in May, the Trump administration announced that it was going to start burying that information and stop informing the public about the cost of weather disasters, and I appreciate your commitment. And the administration is fighting disasters the only way they know how, by denying they even exist. And the only problem solved by burying weather data is the Trump administration's PR problem. But that's all that's buried. The actual information should be out there so the public can see how much worse these storms are as each decade is unfolding. So, Dr. Jacobs, do you think that climate-focused research data and grant programs are relevant to NOAA's mission to understand the health of coastal and marine resources and predict our marine environments?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

weather, water, and climate is essential to NOAA's mission. It's a fundamental part of it. And so data along the coastline obviously is critical to that.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

So I'm glad that we agree on that. So do you support the efforts to collect and understand regional climate data? Which is so important for developing the forecasts that our farmers and other small business owners use to make decisions every single day?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, essentially all data is regional at some level.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

Right. I know that. But do you, do you agree that there should be a continuation of the collection of the data?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Collecting of data observations is a core essential to NOAA's mission.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

Yeah, so, and that's absolutely critical as well because it's too bad that President Trump's budget uses the exact language on climate research as a justification to kill that exact program at NOAA. And frankly, I'm shocked that an agenda that that would cause such problems could even be talked about in the era that we're in right now. Dr. Jacobs, the Trump administration wants to cut NOAA's budget by 27%, no climate, weather, Sea Grant, ocean labs, many other programs exempted. Dr. Jacobs, yes or no, do you support these cuts?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes, I support the president's budget.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

Dr. Jacobs, do these cuts improve the weather readiness of our country?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

The cuts I believe you're referring to, a lot of that work is being transitioned in from the research side to the operations side. So the National Weather Service, the National Ocean Service, their mission-essential functions will continue.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

I have a disagreement with you. A 27% cut is going to have an impact because there's a definite ripple effect that occurs when that kind of funding is slashed, because weather readiness without funding is an hallucination. You can't cut something by 27%, even as the storms are enhanced as each year goes by, without having that additional capacity. So I do not agree with you on that issue. And finally, Mr. Jordan, in 2012, Senator Inhofe wrote a book called The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future. The next year, you adopted the social media handle @TheGreatestHoax as a reference to that book. Is that correct?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Uh, so thank you for the question, Senator. That, that particular name came about while I was earning my master's degree.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

I appreciate that. Can you explain why you chose and kept The Greatest Hoax as your online identity based upon Senator Inhofe's book? What was the joke in that?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

So there is no joke. It was a young man's attempt at wit, and there's really no deeper meaning. They came about contemporaneously, and that's about it.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

No, I appreciate that. But if you want to be a comedian, you should maybe go to open mic night at a local club, because this is serious business. And the greatest hoax is not in any way a joke. It's an attempt to undermine legitimate climate science, undermine those who lead on weather, those who lead on protecting our oceans. So, it just says to me that all the rest of us have to get more serious if the greatest hoax is your handle, because that is not where our country should be. Thank you, Mr.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Chairman. Thank you, Senator Baldwin.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Mr. Chairman, if I may, I wanted to start by taking a moment of personal privilege to say I heard your remarks about your visit to Camp Mystic, and they were heartfelt, closing with the Hunt Store, which is now Hunt Strong. I just want to let you know that our prayers, my prayers go out to all the folks impacted by the tragedy in Kerr County and throughout Central Texas.

Senator Ed Markey (D-MA)SPEAKER_10

And may I say, I should have led with that as well. I heard your comments. Brilliant and heartfelt.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

Dr. Jacobs, Wisconsin feels the impact of increasingly severe weather events like flooding, tornadoes, and drought, and NOAA weather and satellite services are more important now than ever. In particular, farmers in Wisconsin depend upon the agency's data to decide when to plant, and our shipping and fishing industries rely on it to plan safe routes and travel schedules. NOAA data is vital for the safety and economic security across the Midwest and the Great Lakes region. So if confirmed, will you commit to reversing the gutting of NOAA's weather resources by restoring satellite services and staffing in particular?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

If confirmed, definitely making sure staffing is a top priority. And also satellite data, both the procurement of it, access to it, utilization of it, is also a central top priority.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. And thank you for our meeting prior to this hearing today. I wanted to put on the record something we talked about. So if confirmed, will you ensure that high-quality weather and climate data remains both freely and publicly accessible to everyone that relies on it?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, thank you for the question. Uh, yes, if confirmed, it, it, it's my belief that this data should be readily accessible by the public.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

I want to take a moment to recognize the incredible network of Wisconsin organizations that partner with NOAA to protect the Great Lakes, including the Wisconsin Sea Grant, the National Estuarine Research Reserve System, the Coastal Management Program, the Marine Sanctuary Program, and many more. These programs operate on incredibly small, tight budgets while delivering enormous environmental and economic returns. And I would like to thank the people who lead this work in my home state of Wisconsin. Dr. Jacobs, the Great Lakes are a vital resource, not just for industry, but for the 40 million people who rely on them for their drinking water. NOAA plays a major role in protecting the lakes alongside its federal, state, tribal, and local partners from invasive species, from flooding and harmful algal blooms. If confirmed, will you work on restoring and fully funding coastal programs that most impact our Great Lakes, including the Sea Grant, the Coastal Zone Management Program, the estuarine research program, and marine sanctuaries that are doing this work right on the ground every day?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. If confirmed, would love to work with you on this going forward. I actually went home last night and read up on lampreys after our conversation.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

And what did you

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

learn? Stuff I didn't really want to think about. Um, same

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

here.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yeah, um, the, these are obviously very, very important to you and your state as well as to NOAA, and I would look forward to working with you on this.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

Very good. Mr. Kumar, I am concerned that the president's fiscal year '26 budget proposal eliminates funding for the EDA, which among many other critical functions runs the Tech Hub program that was enacted through the bipartisan CHIPS and Science Act. As we discussed, Wisconsin has a tech hub focused on personalized medicine and biohealth technology, key areas for improving patient care and competing with China. The future of the Tech Hub program is too important to leave in question. So will you commit to keeping Congress updated on Commerce's plans for the Tech Hub program, and will you be responsive when we have questions?

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Senator, and I enjoyed our discussion yesterday on this topic. I know the Secretary sees this as a very important program, and yes, if confirmed, I'm committed to working with you and ensuring the EDA team works with you to ensure you and your office have all the necessary information on Tech Hubs.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

And just to reiterate, the EDA program is proposed to be closed, so it'll be hard to have them be the ones to be of contact. I need to know from you that you will keep Congress informed of where it's rehoused if that is a successful proposal on the part of the president.

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Absolutely. I can— if confirmed, I will work with you in your office. Okay.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_12

And I'd like to close by reiterating my frustration with the lack of communication from the Commerce Department regarding dismantling of the Minority Business Development Agency. It's really unacceptable that the secretary has been unresponsive to Congress as he takes away the resources for small businesses that we built up on a bipartisan basis. So if you're confirmed, I sincerely hope this will change.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Dr. Jacobs, President Trump has made it a national priority to expand offshore oil and gas production. NOAA plays a key role in reviewing permits and issuing authorizations under the Marine Mammal Protection Act and other laws. If you're confirmed, how will you improve the efficiency of the offshore permitting process, particularly when it comes to environmental reviews under NEPA or the MMPA?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question, Senator. If confirmed, I'll work with the White House to find efficiencies to unlock America's energy potential, consistent with the executive order of Unleashing American Energy.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Mr. Jordan, a persistent challenge within NOAA has been the siloed structure of its line offices, which has resulted in research projects stalling or never transitioning into operational use. NOAA must close the gap between research and operations in order to give the public and decision-makers more timely and actionable information. How would you accelerate the research-to-operations timeline at NOAA and foster greater collaboration across line offices?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the question, Senator. So moving the research closer to the operational sister line offices of NOAA would be important to take that research from OAR, where it currently exists now, and moving it to the Weather Service or the National Ocean Service. The closeness with the operational end user, the outcome of that data, will foster greater collaboration and innovation. And you also get that feedback loop of research to operations, operations to research. The operations really should be driving what the research is focusing

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Dr. Jacobs, we have seen a pattern of dual-engine flameouts caused by water and hail ingestion when aircraft descend into severe storms. Unlike commercial jets, NOAA's Hurricane Hunters use turboprops, which are less vulnerable because they do not pull water directly into the engines. Can you and the Department of Commerce commit to working with the FAA to ensure that a future, improved Hurricane Hunter fleet uses appropriate technology to prevent deadly incidents?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question, Senator. I I spent many years in the aviation industry. The The turboprops operate differently. They essentially aren't affected by the air-fuel ratio, and that's what helps them in saturated environments. And would definitely commit to working with the FAA on this issue.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Great. Hurricanes have also been known to pick up entire homes off their foundations. How big would a drone need to be to navigate through a hurricane, and to your knowledge, is such a drone available?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Well, thank you for the question. There's probably two capabilities: one would be flying against the wind, and one flying with the wind. So for the last couple of years, one of the things that NOAA's been doing is deploying small drones inside of the hurricane to fly around, but they're a foot or two long. There's other potential opportunities to fly above the hurricane and deploy things through the hurricane. I think it's to be determined if we can actually fly one through the hurricane, but I have been in conversations with a couple of companies that are interested in potentially testing some capabilities.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

And in your judgment, what are the benefits of artificial intelligence for improving weather forecasting?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

The primary benefit, in my opinion, is computational efficiency. If, if even if the artificial intelligence can't do something better, if it can do it faster and more efficiently, I think it's, it's worth using.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Okay. Senator Sullivan.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Jacobs, looking forward to meeting with you. And I want to— I missed a lot of the hearing because we're marking up the defense bill, but I want to look forward to working with you, particularly on NOAA's jobs. In my state, in Alaska, NOAA does really, really important work. And I've appreciated the Trump administration's executive order on restoring American seafood competitiveness. And I talked to Secretary Lutnick about this. Our fishermen often get the raw end of the deal, right? If you're like a farmer, a high-tech Silicon Valley guy, or a Wall Street guy, the American government takes care of you, right? And those are all important, particularly our farmers, nothing against them, but when you're a fisherman, a lot of times it's like, Hey, good luck, right? And so our fishermen don't ask a lot. They ask a few basic things from the federal government: robust fish surveys to inform accurate stock assessments and the timely promulgation of regulations to open up the fisheries, right? Unfortunately, NOAA—and this was during Biden for sure—they didn't do stock assessments. They were going on doing all their kind of other stuff. They got a lot of money, but they weren't doing the basic blocking and tackling of stock assessments. How much fish is in certain parts of the ocean, and how much can we fish it, knowing that we want sustainable, environmentally sound fisheries, okay? I've been worried, and then when the Deputy Secretary of Commerce was here during his confirmation hearing, I let him know about my concerns that the Trump NOAA guys aren't doing it either. And it's just it's not good, right? You got a basic job to do. So, I need your commitment right now, if you get confirmed—and you and I are going to have a long talk about this when you come see me in my office—but you got to do this, right? And you can't cut staff who do this work. If you don't do surveys, guess what happens? The great American fishermen that I represent—by the way, my state's the superpower of seafood. Over two-thirds of all seafood harvested in America, commercial, subsistence, sport, two-thirds comes from Alaska. So, if and when you get confirmed, you're going to be spending a lot of time in Alaska. But, right,

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

absolutely.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Yeah, good. Okay. But my point is, if you don't do the surveys, then the science is kind of crimped and people say, Well, we're not sure what you can do, and it limits their ability to actually go fish. So I want your view on that. I'm sure Senator Cantwell already hit you up on it, but this is so important, and I'm a little concerned that the Department of Commerce under Secretary Lutnick is not doing it, either. And it's unacceptable. You guys got to commit to me, and don't do like Biden did. They got all this money, and then they never did surveys, either. They did all their other stuff. I don't know what the hell they did with the money, but commit to me on this right now, because it's really important. This is going to be a main part of your job. In first 6 months, I've been really concerned. And gosh darn it, this—we're not asking a lot. Do the science. Do the surveys. During COVID, people were making up, Oh, we can't go out. It's too dangerous. No, go do the surveys. Can you talk a little about that and make a commitment to me and my fishermen that you will get out and do the damn surveys, right? It's really—again, we don't ask for much. It's basic blocking and tackling that NOAA is supposed to do, and I don't know why it's a problem right now. It shouldn't be a problem in the Trump administration. I need you to focus on it and commit to me right now to do it.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. So if confirmed, absolutely, stock assessments and surveys is a top priority. We wouldn't be competitive in seafood industry if we don't do those, because understanding, for example, the status of pollock stock is is essential for for setting the quotas. And I I understand and appreciate your concerns, and if confirmed, very, very high priority.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Good. I appreciate that. We have a lot of issues. The bycatch issue is an issue. I was just up on the Yukon River. There's no fishing again on the Yukon. I was up, my wife's family has a fish camp on the Yukon River. There was no king fishing again. We need to get to the bottom of what's happening to our salmon runs. I had legislation, my Alaska Salmon Research Task Force Act, which was passed. NOAA did some good work, but we have some runs in Alaska that are doing great: Bristol Bay sockeye run. Other iconic runs in Alaska, king runs on the Yukon to Kuskokwim, they're cratering, and that really hurts people. More than just food security, it's culture for our Native communities. Can you commit to me to continue to work getting the best science, the best minds on why we are seeing in certain parts of Alaska these dramatic crashes in our salmon runs and why that's happening, and take action to help us return to what everybody in Alaska and America wants: strong, vibrant salmon runs?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. Absolutely. If confirmed, we'll commit to working on this. This is something that I've been wondering about for a while because we do fund a lot of this restoration and a lot of these stocks don't seem to be improving. Yeah. And it's deeply concerning.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Well, and there's a gap in the research, right? That's one of the things that— it's a long story, but the salmon live out in the ocean most of their life. But the research from the feds is actually not focused on salmon. Alaska, the state, focuses on salmon research, but within the rivers, not out in the big ocean. We need more research on what's happening to the salmon as they live out in the ocean for most of their lives. And that's where NOAA could be very helpful. Can I get your commitment on that as well?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes, definitely commit to working with you on this.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

And then finally, and I do want to compliment Secretary Lutnick and his team, President Trump and his team on their executive order on seafood competitiveness. That was really welcomed. It was a really good EO. We got to work together to implement it. But the other thing I just need your commitment on, and Secretary Lutnick's been great on this, the unfair, unbalanced trade relationship that we have had, particularly with Russia and China. What do I mean? Russia banned the importation of American seafood in 2014. Zero fish from America could go to Russia. And we, for whatever reason, for the last decade, have let them import as much fish as they want. That is crushing our fishermen, fishing communities. Finally, 2 years ago, under the Biden administration, I give them credit, they blocked the importation of Russian seafood. Then the Russians send it to China to have it laundered in China, and we closed that loophole, right? And the Trump administration, to their credit, has been really good about keeping that ban on the importation of Russian seafood regardless of where they send it for secondary head-gutting and filleting. But I need your commitment to continue to that and work with us. We just had a really good hearing on IUU fishing, where the Chinese, the Russians, they have no standards. They use slave labor. And we need your help to work on those issues as well. Can I get your commitment on those?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Absolutely.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Dr. Jacobs, you have spent decades as a redfish fishing guide on the Atlantic. I do have to ask, in following up my friend Senator Sullivan questions, have you been salmon fishing in Alaska?

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

I have.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Good. I That was the right answer. And it is extraordinary. I have 2.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

That was the right answer.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

And it is a unique and beautiful place.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

Well, maybe when you come up to Alaska, the chairman and I, we can host you for some more fishing out there.

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I was looking forward to it.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

And since he's a guide, we may do better with him along.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_09

That's right.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Ranking Member Cantwell.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I do want to echo my colleague from Alaska's—I did, you're right, bring it up in my earlier questioning about stock assessments, but I want to echo again, it's, our industries are just chasing a never-ending go-around, right? But it all starts with stock assessments as a really basic information, and then making sure that we play a more aggressive role internationally to stop the Russians and Chinese for collaborating and impacting our fishery. So very much appreciate your your comments on that. So I'd like to follow on with do you think we should have a NOAA Organic Act? Would that help in persevering and preserving stock assessments in a more robust way?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

I, I'm I thank you for the question. I believe NOAA's long overdue to have its mission authorized in statute. So very much. Great,

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Thank you. Do you support the Weather Act reauthorization?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay. Do you support replacing the Northwest Fisheries Science Center—when Senator Sullivan was talking about all of these issues, I remember the whole Canadian threat to salmon and all the work that we do at that NOAA facility in Seattle. Do we need to replace that or make sure it still exists?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

If I remember correctly, this was an issue when I was at NOAA last time, and it was something we were working on. And I believe there was discussion of potentially working with the university or something.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

I think it just needs to take the final step. So

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

yeah, I would love to work with you on that. It's confirmed.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Do you support, uh, tribal government-to-government consultation?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Uh, I do.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Great. Um, I do think that's something that you know, is an on— not an ongoing effort. We get it. We understand it. With 29 tribes in the Northwest, we get what tribal-to-government consultation, government-to-government consultation means. But I do think from time to time agencies forget this. And certainly I think even in the last administration, they forgot this. So, hopefully, you can help restore that. I understand my colleague asked about the budget cuts, which you said you supported, the 27% budget cut to NOAA, is that correct? So, how do how do you keep your science mission, and particularly in atmospheric and oceanic areas, how do you keep that science mission if we're cutting that budget, when when, in reality, that's a that's a core part of your mission?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

So, I appreciate the question. A lot of these priorities, particularly weather forecasting and things we've been discussing all day, some of that's being transferred to the Weather Service. It's my hope for certain things that that we're looking at to basically fulfill the mission requirements of the forecasting capabilities, that the Weather Service takes over a lot of that. Some other aspects transferred to the Ocean Service.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay, so you think that the missions are going to be preserved, just preserved somewhere else?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes, that's It's my objective to make sure that NOAA fulfills their mission requirements.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Great, I'm glad you said that. And we had a discussion earlier where you were saying, No, no, these people need to be on the ground. You can't replace people on the ground. So you have to have people that are implementing, understanding the local, regional dynamic on weather, and also implementing an action plan, basically getting first responders, everybody to help and implement that based off that data. So, very much appreciate that answer. But in this, it just reminds me Boeing said, Well, we're going to get rid of all these safety inspectors. We're going to get rid of, like, 300 safety inspectors. Why? Because that was their main job and we can just self-certify our work. Well, that didn't turn out very well because they missed a lot, because it turned out that those safety people actually were doing something really critically important. In fact, they tried to automate parts of it, and that turned out to be a disaster, and so they changed it. So I just, I'm cautioning you and I don't agree with the Trump administration proposal on cutting these programs. I think they are essential scientific search information. I'm all for elevating the game. I have been for years, elevating with more supercomputing and certainly using I think one of the things that we can do is get better information so that forecast is 2 weeks in advance. Or why are we cutting these weather balloons? I mean, the fact that the weather balloon is there to tell you the amount of moisture and the condition of the atmosphere, why was that so important for us with fires? Because the land was getting so dry. A lightning strike that may not have caused a problem now all of a sudden causes a problem. So the critical nature changed, and we had to understand that. So I just, I hope that we're not thinking that we're just going to put weather up here in some big, Oh, we have this really great way of getting information from the private sector somehow and we're not going to play this critical role. I don't know, Mr. Jordan, you're shaking your head or nodding, so I don't know if you have a thought on this. But we can't we can't just shift these resources somewhere else. We have to own them. NOAA has to own them. They have to own weather forecasting. We need it to be better, but we can't transfer some of it out and then say that's somebody else. Mr. Jordan,

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Thank you for the opportunity to provide a comment. So I agree, I was shaking my head in agreement with you. Yes, the weather forecasting is very important. America has a robust American private weather industry that really amplifies the work that NOAA does, but it is very important for NOAA to do its weather forecasting mission.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay, well, how do we preserve that in a budget?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

I believe looking at the budget, again not at NOAA, looking at it from the outside, I see the Weather Service mission, the line office, is is preserved.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

But what about all the work they do to understand?

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

within the Weather Service? Yes. The budget, I believe, funds the Weather Service.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Okay, so I'm I'm talking about the R&D office of the oceanic— yeah, that research group.

Taylor JordanSPEAKER_04

Understood. Sorry for the confusion. And as Dr. Jacobs said, looking at the budget again, not having the conversations with the folks inside about what's happening, but it looks like the transition of some of that work is happening from OAR to the Weather Service.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_17

Yeah. I think this is where we're probably in because that that office, the Weather Research Office, is eliminated. So I think I think what we should do is, I've heard what Dr. Jacobs has said. Look, I think we want to get a clear understanding of this. I think we're in a disagreement on this. I think we like this office. I don't think we want it be zeroed out. We think it's the key to NOAA doing its job overall. And as people talk about killing hurricane hunters—is that correct?—killing hurricane hunters, these are the people that fly into the hurricanes to give us all the information. Why would we kill that? Why would we kill that? So let's get a framework here and we'll follow up with some questions to both of you on this entire regime and how you think it's going to work. And I get you're nominees by this administration so you're going to generally agree with their budget. We disagree with it. But I think more importantly, let's look at these programs that are going to be cut and have an understanding from you at least about what you think and how that responsibility is going to get served. Because without it being served, I have serious concerns about our ability to do the job that NOAA is requested to do on forecasting. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Senator Cantwell. Dr. Jacobs, Mr. Jordan, Mr. Kumar, my final question is required of all nominees. If confirmed, do you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to the committee's requests and to appear before the committee when requested?

Neil JacobsSPEAKER_02

Yes. Yes.

Harry KumarSPEAKER_05

Yes.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. I have letters of support for Dr. Jacobs and Mr. Jordan nominations that I ask unanimous consent to be inserted in the hearing record. Without objection, so ordered. Senators will have until the close of business on Friday, July 11th, to submit questions for the record. The nominees will have until the close of business on Monday, July 14th, to respond to those questions. That concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned.