Nomination Hearing – Deputy Secretary of Commerce

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

The Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation will come to order. Today we will consider the nomination of Paul Dabbar to serve as Deputy Secretary of Commerce. Mr. Dabbar, congratulations on your nomination. We look forward to hearing about your professional experience and your vision for supporting and complementing Secretary Lutnick's leadership of the department. As Deputy Secretary, Mr. Dabbar will serve as the second-in-command at the department. He will oversee daily operations and help tackle a wide array of issues, from fixing Biden's failed BEAD program, which connected not a single American to high-speed internet, to countering climate alarmism at NOAA. These are not small tasks. Mr. Dabbar has an impressive background. After graduating from the United States Naval Academy, he served as a nuclear submarine officer for six years. He then earned an MBA from Columbia University before going to work for JPMorgan for nearly two decades. There, he oversaw more than $400 billion in energy investments, spanning oil, gas, nuclear, solar, wind, and geothermal energy. During the first Trump administration, Mr. Dabbar was unanimously confirmed as the fourth Under Secretary for Science at the Department of Energy. In that role, he managed a workforce of tens of thousands of personnel across more than 100 sites with a $14.5 billion budget. He oversaw the majority of U.S. national laboratories at a time when they faced a growing threat of Chinese espionage. He implemented the National Quantum Initiative Act and sought to spur the development of next-generation energy storage technologies. Following his tenure at the Department of Energy, Mr. Dabbar co-founded Bohr Quantum Technology, a pioneering cybersecurity company developing quantum networking systems. If confirmed, he'll draw on his technical expertise and entrepreneurial experience to tackle complex challenges at the intersection of science, government, and industry. I will note that he has the explicit support of five former Cabinet secretaries from both Republican and Democratic administrations. This nomination comes as the Department of Commerce works to preserve access to the Gulf for oil and gas exploration, expand commercial access to mid-band spectrum, and maintain U.S. leadership in artificial intelligence, quantum, commercial space, and advanced manufacturing. It also comes amid a public trade battle. President Trump is rightfully standing up to China and working to reshore industries vital to our national security. But we should be mindful that long-term tariffs on manufacturing inputs and other goods would function as a de facto tax increase on small businesses and the American middle class. My hope is that the Commerce Department leadership will work alongside the President to steer a course that addresses our supply chain vulnerabilities and restores dignity to the American worker, but aims for freer and fairer trade with our allies, not simply protectionism. There are two paths before us: one that uses tariffs strategically to secure better trade deals, incentivizing our trading partners to lower the tariffs they charge to American goods and services in exchange for lowering our own tariffs. The other path is a path that locks in place high tariffs indefinitely. I very much hope we are on the former path and not the latter. Just this week, Secretary Lutnick has touted an international trade deal now in its final stages. The President has also signed a proclamation offering relief to the auto industry following the results of a Commerce Department Section 232 investigation into the import of automobiles and automobile parts. These are signals the administration wants to use its trade authorities to secure better deals for the American people. I am confident that Mr. Dabbar, an experienced dealmaker himself, can assist in this effort. I hope he will outline for us today the path that he plans to take under the direction of the President. I will now turn to Ranking Member Cantwell for her opening remarks.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome, Mr. Dabbar. Congratulations on your nomination. Welcome to your wife, and welcome to one of those energy secretaries here supporting you, Mr. Brouillette, and enjoyed working with both of you at the Department of Energy. I know this isn't the first time you've testified before a Senate hearing, and having been confirmed for the Under Secretary of Science at the Department of Engineering— Department of Energy, we worked together in the implementation of not just the National Quantum Initiative, but your role in Hanford cleanup, and I very much appreciate that. The Deputy Secretary of Commerce plays a significant role in shaping the U.S. economy, and if confirmed, you'll be a representative for the day-to-day operations of the department in assisting American businesses and promoting policies that help us create economic growth. But your nomination comes at a time when we've had a significant period of disruption and chaos at the agency. Under Secretary Lutnick's leadership, I believe we've had a series of alarming decisions and actions that are damaging the opportunities for economic growth. First and foremost, the Minority Business Development Agency, a 56-year-old agency that Congress permanently authorized in 2021, has been dismantled. For those unfamiliar with the MBDA, I believe my colleague, Senator Wicker, was quite accurate when he said, I quote, "The Minority Business Development Agency has been a lifeline for many minority businesses, owners, and entrepreneurs seeking to grow their businesses," end quote. And indeed, Secretary Lutnick testified before this committee that he would not support dismantling of the Minority Business Development Agency, which helped create and retain approximately 23,000 jobs in fiscal year 2024 alone. This is about capacity building. This is about capacity building within a community that may not necessarily have the same access to capital, may not have the same parameters, and this agency has been quite successful. But within 2 months of his confirmation, he has fired all of its employees, canceled all of its grants, and even the sign that once marked the MBDA office at the Department of Commerce building has been pulled down under his watch. Meanwhile, the department continues to slash essential workers at NOAA, with approximately 2,500 employees of the 12,000-person workforce fired or otherwise departing since the start of this administration. These staffing shortages are already impacting NOAA's core functions, including reduced and suspended weather balloon launches at many of our weather forecast offices. And I can't tell you how important this is for us, particularly related to fire season. These NOAA weather activities are giving us essential data about how best to prepare for fire season. And further cuts are expected in the coming weeks. On top of that, the Trump administration is pursuing a 2026 budget proposal that would reduce NOAA's budget by more than 27%, including a 75% cut to the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research, the closures of all its weather climate labs, and an 85% cut to the Office of Space Commerce. I can tell you this, Mr. Dabbar, as somebody who ran a science organization, that we are going to hold this administration accountable for the cuts in science. It is not acceptable. Innovation is the way we're going to grow our economy. It is the way we are going to protect our industries that exist today. At the same time, the administration is calling for major reorganizations of NOAA, including moving out the National Marine Fisheries Service to the Department of Interior. Not sure why the most important management resource we have for our fisheries, having our science management system, we would give up to the Department of Interior. I'm particularly shocked to see this proposal given that Mr. Lutnick promised to me during his confirmation hearing that, quote, "I have no interest in separating NOAA," end quote, and that breaking up NOAA, quote, "is not on my agenda," end quote. What changed? What's equally concerning is that the Office of Management and Budget proposal to eliminate the Economic Development Administration entirely, I believe this would jeopardize important decisions that continue to help us grow our tech hubs and important investments that keep growing our economy across the United States. So, I could go on and on about tariffs. While I appreciate many of the things that the chairman just mentioned in his tariff statement, yes, I probably would be more comfortable with you leading our tariff charge than the current secretary, but I can tell you this: Tariffs are hurting small businesses today. They're significantly reducing our economic growth. They are significantly constraining opportunities, and people just may not even be in business by the time these deals are done. And I know that some people think that might be the price to pay; I do not. I do not believe in that view of an American economy where we lead on alliance building and we lead on moving forward on economic opportunities by opening up markets, particularly big opportunities that I think we have in front of us. So, that's to say, I very much appreciate, Mr. Dabbar, your leadership in the past. I'm outlining the big challenges I see in front of you in stabilizing the agency's core mission. Look forward to hearing the answers to our questions today. But again, welcome to you, and congratulations on your nomination.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Mr. Dabbar, you're now recognized for your opening statement.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Thank you, Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members of the committee. It's an honor to be here today. I'm grateful to President Trump and Secretary Lutnick for their trust and confidence in me for this nomination to be Deputy Secretary of Commerce. Joining me today is my wonderful wife of 25 years, Andrea. Our children, Katie and Will, are watching from their efforts at work and college. I greatly appreciate their support when I was Under Secretary for Science. Also here today is my former boss, former Energy Secretary Dan Brouillette, and friends of my time in government, the Naval Academy, and the private sector. If my nomination is confirmed by this body, it will be the fourth time I will have sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The first time when I was 17 years old, after my appointment by former Senator Don Nickles for induction day at the Naval Academy. My second time was when I was commissioned a Navy ensign. I joined the nuclear submarine force and had the honor to serve in many operations, including deployment to the Arctic with the Arctic Research Laboratory with a team supported by NOAA. And my third time occurred when I was sworn in as under secretary. Since my time in the Navy, my career has spanned investments, trade, science, and technology. I recently helped start up two technology companies, one in energy tech, and another, a spinout of Caltech in quantum. I stayed involved in public policy, testifying regularly before Congress, serving as a fellow at Columbia University on policy, and a contributor at The Wall Street Journal, the Hoover Institution, and elsewhere. During President Trump's first term, I was honored to serve as the fourth Under Secretary for Science at the Department of Energy, managing research and operations at the national laboratories. During my tenure, I worked with many members on driving America forward on science and technology, and I led our robust efforts in environmental cleanup efforts from our nuclear weapons program. I was the lead on the exascale computing program, which led to four number one global computers, including the first use of the GPU chip. And many of them were completed ahead of schedule and under budget. I also led the National Quantum Initiative. I broke through decades of long issues in environmental management at Hanford and elsewhere and completed large nuclear projects, including several ahead of schedule and under budget. As under secretary, I worked extensively with the Department of Commerce bureaus, including USPTO, NIST, NOAA, and BIS. Earlier in my career, I was a senior executive at JPMorgan, leading several hundred billion dollars of global investment and helping lead our global our efforts in global commodities trading, including energy and critical materials. I'm excited to join the Commerce Department, and my experience will well fit me for this position. This is an exciting time for the sectors covered by the department. U.S. commercial competitiveness and trade are clearly at the front and center of many issues. Additionally, science and technology efforts, including AI, semiconductors, quantum, intellectual property, the blue economy, and technology security, are also at the forefront. My significant experience across the scope of the department will enable me to manage and lead its various bureaus, from experience in trade in the private sector, my maritime service in NOAA, DOE technology security efforts in BIS, my science and technology background in NIST, starting up a quantum communications company in NTIA, just to name a few. And I have deep experience in managing large government efforts. And finally, I have the persistence to get things done and take on challenges of any magnitude. For example, I have completed a 146-mile Ironman triathlon, and I am one of the few people who have been to both the geographic North and South Poles. I was honored and humbled to receive wide support from the Senate for my last confirmation, including being confirmed by unanimous consent. Today, I humbly ask for every member's vote and support for my nomination. Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Mr. Dabbar. And just to clarify for the record, members of this committee will not be required to run an Ironman in

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Speak for yourself.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

You, you, you are encouraged to run an Ironman if you, if you feel so inspired, but you will be unable—

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

You climbed Kilimanjaro.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

I climbed Mount Fuji, but I was 19.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I have my past staff behind me. I tried to encourage them to do a half Ironman when I was at DOE, and I got some significant HR pushback on pressuring them.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Understandably. And I will say, on the Republican side of the aisle, two of our members, Markwayne Mullin and Dave McCormick, are both former very accomplished wrestlers, and more than a few of us have been trying to arrange a cage match, which we think would sell a lot of tickets. We have been unsuccessful in scheduling that, but hope springs eternal. Senator Sheehy just would shoot them both, so it's all a difference in perspective. All right. To the work at hand. Mr. Dabbar, your experience at the Department of Energy, your two-decade career in financial management, your success as the founder of a quantum technology company, all of that makes you very well qualified for this position. Tell us, why do you want to be Deputy Secretary of Commerce?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

As I mentioned, Senator, this is an exciting time for the scope. Obviously, trade, as was mentioned by both you and the ranking member, is obviously front and center. I have a significant amount of background of that in the private sector. And the bureaus that are primarily science and technology—NOAA, BIS, the Patent Office, the CHIPS Act, those and others are certainly NTIA—are primarily science and technology efforts. And obviously I have a great background in it, but I'm also very passionate about each and every one of those areas.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

So as you and I discussed in my office yesterday, the president and this administration has two paths before it: one path that I think is very, very positive; one path that I think is very, very negative. The positive path, I think President Trump right now has extraordinary leverage, unprecedented leverage to negotiate lower tariffs from our trading partners in exchange for lowering the tariffs that he has threatened to impose on them. I think if we end up 30, 60, 90 days from now in a world where we've got markedly lower tariffs across the globe, that would be a historic victory for Americans, for American jobs, for American workers. On the other hand, the second path we could go down is a path that maintains very high tariffs in perpetuity—American tariffs on all of our trading partners—and we can expect retaliatory tariffs from our trading partners. I believe that would be a very bad path. I believe that would be a path that would hurt Texas and would hurt America. What is your view? Which path is preferable for the administration to take?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, the president has been very clear. I'm supportive of the president's positions on the different drivers of trade and the different potential accomplishments of trade. One of them may be to drive down barriers and tariffs and non-tariff barriers in our trading counterparties. Another one is to reindustrialize the US as we lost a significant amount of jobs, especially since the WTO accession of the PRC drove down industrial jobs. The third one is national security. I think yourself and many others here talk about the national security impact of the trade deficits. And the last one is potentially revenues. I am not certain of the exact negotiations between various parties, but I could certainly see that some negotiations may be more focused on accomplishment of one or two of those, and some might be others. For example, I've testified many times before the Senate about China and national security issues, and I certainly think that when we talk about the PRC, national security and reindustrialization is going to be much more focused as a likely outcome of negotiations.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

I recognize you will not be the ultimate decision-maker when it comes to the President's trade policy, but you will be one of the voices in the room, and it is my hope that you will be a voice in the room advocating for using these tariffs as leverage to secure freer and fairer trade, because I think that's the right direction for the administration to go. Let me shift to a different topic. One of the Department of Commerce's most consequential responsibilities is the allocation and management of spectrum through the NTIA. Last year, Leader Thune, Senator Blackburn, and I introduced a bill to restore the FCC's authority and establish a clear, actionable spectrum pipeline, one that empowers commercial businesses to invest, innovate, and create jobs. We now have the opportunity to advance a pipeline through reconciliation, which will not only bring in significant funding to the Treasury, but will also help unleash American prosperity through market innovation and investment. Notably, the bill does not constrain the various parties in determining how to meet the goals of the pipeline. It provides instead a framework for success. It also enhances our national security, as any agency that becomes more efficient in its use of spectrum will receive significant funding. The NTIA will play a lead role as the federal government's spectrum management agency. Do you agree that it is important for the federal government to make additional spectrum available for commercial use and that this can be done without compromising national security?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Tell this committee what the benefits are of making additional spectrum available for private development.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So there's two in particular, Mr. Chairman, that I would highlight. One is satellite 5G, which is still very early stage, and then one that I'm particularly interested in focusing on, if I'm so lucky to be confirmed, is on satellite 6G, where where the U.S. needs to jump forward as as a next competitive battlefield with the PRC. So the utilization of spectrum to not only get to 5G satellite, but also get to 6G satellite, which, hopefully by the end of my term, if I'm so lucky to be confirmed, that we will be moving forward on that and showing leadership on that over the PRC.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

I very much agree that it is critical that America win the race for 5G and for 6G and that we not fall behind China. And if we find ourselves in a world where China and Huawei in particular has provided the global architecture for telecommunications worldwide, that would do enormous damage both to our economic security and our national security. And I trust you will work hard in this new role to prevent that from happening. Ranking Member Cantwell.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, appreciate working together with you on many energy fronts, including quantum and Hanford cleanup. Mr. Dabbar, do you support the CHIPS and Science Act?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, I've been on the record and testified in support of that when it was going through Congress.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

So you believe in honoring the agreements that are in place with companies?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I'm not familiar with actual agreements underneath the CHIPS Act at the Commerce Department, but the president—

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

generally, if you think we've signed an agreement with a company and allocated resources, that we should fulfill them.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I—

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

barring any, you know, barring any major problems with them.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Secretary Lutnick and the president have been very clear about how to take the resources under the CHIPS and Science Act and how to get the most bang for the buck for the for the taxpayer. And I think the president, and the announcement—and Secretary Lutnick was just in Arizona on on the announcement around TSMC moving from one fab for $65 billion of support to three fabs and $165 billion with no additional CHIPS support. And so I think that's a a great example of taking the CHIPS Act subsidies and support and how to get the most most out of it within within agreements. So I'm not familiar, for example, with all the TSMC agreements, but I think that's

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

I have more questions. I actually saw Secretary Lutnick last night, and he was emphasizing how much he enjoyed being there, but I tell you this, this committee and the last administration got that done. Now, I'm glad you feel like you get to rearrange some of the chess pieces, but the President of the United States saying he's not for CHIPS and Science and then all of us having to push back every damn day is nuts, okay? This is policy that we've implemented that will make the United States competitive. And so, I just need to know that you're not going to be one of the— another one of these people that is going to make this harder for us. That's all we want to know, okay? Will you commit to maintaining the NIST budget and the other R&D programs that are under the agency?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, uh, sorry, that is actually— yes, that didn't know it was a question. Sorry.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

What about the money for the tech hubs?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, yes, I, I think, uh, as appropriated and authorized, uh, I certainly know a bit about the tech hubs, but assuming it's funded and, uh, authorized.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

Okay, what about moving marine fisheries out of NOAA and into Interior? Another also ridiculous idea.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, I only know what I read in the newspaper about different potential proposals. I do know that over time that various proposals have been made about NOAA, including last Congress, about separating it completely. So, I would review any sort of proposal, given many has been made over the decades on NOAA.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

I get this may not be one of your areas of expertise, but if you could bone up a little bit more on this for the record and give us an answer. The science that NOAA does helps us manage our fisheries. And right now, we're being taken advantage of by both the Chinese and the Russians. And so we don't want to be more disenabled at NOAA to advocate for our fisheries. My colleague from Alaska who's here probably has a thought on this. But we want to be more empowered to fight and fight the injustices against the United States. We see a huge opportunity for the Department of Commerce to provide that leadership. You want to talk about a trade issue, talk about fisheries and talk about the unfairness that's happening. But we need the science, and we need that agency to be complete on its R&D mission in NOAA. So what about the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research that also is being proposed to be eliminated?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Well, just to address your first point, Senator, when I was Under Secretary for Science, we had smaller than NOAA, but we did have a number of topics around fish and around atmospheric sciences. We had one plane rather than several. There's a bit of a history of that on nuclear weapons and so on. But the fish, as you know, Senator Cantwell, we had research in Washington State along the Columbia River that I helped run, Sequim, which is another facility, and at Senator Blackburn state at Oak Ridge on Okay, I just have to follow

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

up. I have one more question to ask you. So I got that you have a little bit of— you'll come back to me on this point. So, but on the spectrum issue, you don't— the warfare of the future is in the skies, correct?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Sorry?

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

The warfare on the spectrum issue, the warfare of the future is in the skies, correct?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yeah, absolutely, Senator.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

And so, we can't give away DOD assets that could have interference if that hurts our warfare capabilities for the future. Is that correct?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

We absolutely need to be careful. And I do have a technical, a bit of a technical background in this. And I know there are many people working on how to use the spectrum from a technical point of view more efficiently. So in addition to just what the actual spectrum set aside is, but also how to manage it better from a— You

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

don't you don't believe in compromising DOD?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

absolutely not. Thank you. Yes.

Ranking Member Maria Cantwell (D-WA)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

Senator Sullivan, for more discussion on fish.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll I'll save fish for a minute. But Mr. Dabbar, I'm very impressed by your background. I think you're eminently qualified, and I certainly plan on supporting you. And you mentioned your father worked at the Kenai LNG facility or helped get LNG from Alaska sold to Japan. Is that correct?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

He worked for Phillips 66 in the late '60s selling LNG to Tokyo Gas.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

That's amazing. Yeah, that's great. Well, that fits perfect. Last night I also saw the secretary at a dinner, Secretary Lutnick. He mentioned to me, and I agree with Senator Cruz, that we have enormous leverage right now to reduce tariffs. One of the things that we're also trying to do is get our Asian allies to commit, like your father did, to purchase Alaskan LNG from the large-scale LNG project that we're now working on. Secretary is fully on board with that. He mentioned again to me last night. So is the president. So is the U.S. trade rep. Can I just get your commitment to work with them on that big opportunity we have? This is a huge strategic opportunity for our country.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yeah. Yes, Senator. American energy superpower status. Now we're in a better position than ever before on energy contributing to the positive trade.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

Great. Speaking of superpowers, I like to refer to Alaska as the superpower of seafood. About two-thirds of all seafood harvested—commercial, sport, subsistence—of all the fish harvested in America, over two-thirds comes from Alaska. So we are it. Multibillion-dollar industry, multibillion-dollar exporter. So Secretary Lutnick, during his confirmation, said he wanted to be, quote, the godfather of the American fisherman. I don't know if there's another phrase I can use for you, consigliere or something like that, but can you also commit to making this a high priority? He got tons of questions during his confirmation hearing on fish. Can I get your commitment on that?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

So, I think we're off to a good start, certainly on fisheries. We have this Unleashing Alaska's Extraordinary Resource Potential executive order from President Trump on day one. This includes fisheries, LNG, all kinds of great things in Alaska. And then just a couple days ago, Restoring America's Seafood Competitiveness EO. So, we're off to a good start, and I want to commend the president, Secretary Lutnick, on their team. But I am concerned to Senator Cantwell points, and this is a big issue, that we're not having the staffing to do the two things that Commerce has to do for fisheries. So, American fisheries, unlike CHIPS and Science, $200— a quarter-of-a-trillion-dollar subsidies. My guys don't get subsidized at all. The federal government has to do two things. They need to do robust surveys to inform accurate stock assessments, and they need to do timely promulgation of regulations to open fisheries. That's it. And when the federal government doesn't do that, you screw the hardworking fishermen of Alaska and America. Just think Deadliest Catch. They do have to compete with Russia and China. And to be honest, right now, it's not starting to look good, and I'm starting to get really upset. Because when you got— look, Biden was horrible on the surveys, horrible. We threw a ton of money at NOAA, and the guy did climate change and all this BS. He didn't do the blocking and tackling of NOAA, which is stock assessment surveys. So, you guys came in, hey, we're not going to be like Biden. But you're not— I'm getting really worried that you guys aren't doing this either. And when you don't do stock assessment surveys, you know what happens? My fishermen can't fish. They don't go $240 billion in subsidies. All they need is a survey. It's not happening. I got a whole list, and I'm going to mention them here. And I hope to hell someone from Commerce is watching. Okay? Because if you're not doing surveys, that's the basic stuff you're supposed to do at NOAA, then my guys can't fish. They don't want subsidies, they don't want anything, they just want to fish. So, can I get your commitment? And I hope to hell someone from NOAA is watching this. I got a whole list of surveys right now that looks like you're not going to complete. So, what happens? My fishermen don't fish. That is wrong. Can I get your commitment and hope to hell someone from NOAA and Commerce is watching this right now? Get on with the surveys, goddamn it. Can I get your commitment? Because you can tell I'm a little rattled about this.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes. Yes, Senator. And I know that I've read your proposed bill, the latest one, and also how understanding research of, for example, salmon in Alaska, where some things are going well, you know, strong and some things are weaker and why. So certainly committed on that also.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

But we just need— I just need your commitment to get the staffing and money to do the surveys. That's it. And if the if we're failing on this, this is not good. Let me ask one final question. This relates There's a contract we're trying to get the Secretary to sign right now. It's for the Oscar Dyson. It's a NOAA survey vessel homeported in Kodiak, Alaska. It's coming up for its contract that needs to be signed this week. Again, I hope Commerce people are watching. Okay, just sign the contract so we can do the surveys from the Oscar Dyson. That's a NOAA survey vessel ship. If that's not signed in the next couple days, that vessel won't be able to do surveys. So again, this is blocking and tackling to take care of our fishermen, which is in the President's EOs, but we got to be able to support them with science. And can I get your commitment on that and maybe have someone get to the Secretary and sign this contract on the Oscar Dyson like today?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I'll, I'll follow up, and there are people behind me and watching, uh, listening to you, I'm certain.

Senator Dan Sullivan (R-AK)SPEAKER_13

Really, really important. Thank you.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

All right, I will now recognize Senator Klobuchar and note that the swear jar is being passed around.

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Okay,

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was up till 1:00 a.m. watching the Timberwolves beat the LA Lakers, just for the record. Kind of a surprise in that series. We're very excited.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

The Cavs are ready for you.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Okay, great. So, I appreciate your background very much and your commitment to science and economic opportunity. I view this, being from a state with 15 Fortune 500 companies, fourth for ag exports, Mayo Clinic, a big medical device presence, that we are literally on this cusp of economic expansion, or were on it, I should say, with everything from mapping of the human genome to the work that's been done on AI if we—I'm going to ask about this—put some rules in place. But I am concerned, and my colleagues have asked you about this, just about these tariffs setting us backwards with the rest of the world. I cannot tell you how concerned I am about this because not everyone—Tim Cook can get into the White House, but my little company down that makes high chair stuff, Busy Baby, she can't get in there and she can't get at the investment meetings, doesn't know which tariffs are going to change, what's going to happen. And so, I just hope you'll be a voice on that front. So, first question I have: National Science Foundation grants, and the administration has cut off hundreds of these grants, including at the University of Minnesota. And I just—this scientific research going on, again, very exciting. Will you commit to funding the NSF, and will you commit to restoring funding for the NSF grants?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Commerce doesn't fund NSF. I'm reasonably familiar because when I was under secretary, and we also do work with NSF at South Pole and elsewhere. And so, certainly NSF is a very important aspect to funding research, but I don't have that scope.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Will you be an advocate for it was probably the better words.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will certainly be supporting S&T and investment. And I think, as you know, Senator, when the sequester was lifted last time, the president signed the Quantum bill, the AI bill, and so on. And I was certainly a part of both supporting that and executing on that.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Speaking of AI, we've had a lot of bipartisan work over here, still haven't really passed. Senator Thune and I have a base bill for non-defense applications of AI. Talk about what your priorities would be for AI. I'm just concerned that we haven't put in place any guardrails, and that could actually set everyone back if we don't do that.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, it's a long topic, having Bill Yeah —

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

I don't— Yeah, you can't fill a

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yeah, I'll I'll try to stay narrow, Senator. The the the opportunity set for AI is just so incredibly broad. I think it's very important to allow every medical device maker and every every company out there to look at AI for operations and allow people to expand. I'm on the board of Dominion Energy, which is currently— I'll be resigning if I'm so lucky to be confirmed. But using AI for utility operations, for dispatching power plants, storms, you could use this for weather. So, getting to NOAA,

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

got

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

it. There's a long list and want to try to facilitate all the different opportunities, including within the scope of Commerce.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Yes. And I just would hope that you would be an advocate—I can ask this more in writing—just for some rules of the road in place, because even the companies want this, and we can talk about it more back and forth or meet about it. Okay, rural exports. Senator Hoeven and I passed legislation on this. You know, we have the Foreign Commercial Service, but in a lot of areas they don't have a—a big company might have, you know, full-time trade expert on a certain part of the world, and this Rural Export Center in Fargo assists rural small businesses to access international markets. And you may not be familiar with the details, but would you commit to supporting the work of the Commerce Department with rural exports?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Okay, thank you. We talked about CHIPS and Science broadband program. Had a confirmation come through this committee on on that. We, as you know, we allocated a lot of money. Hasn't really gone out quite yet. We don't want to get back into that whole history, but we do have to get it out. And are you committed to getting that funding out to the states and to work?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN)SPEAKER_06

Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

Thank you for being here. Thank you for serving your country for the fourth time. I appreciate that. Look forward to having you confirmed. Taking off from what my colleagues were talking about, innovation, something that's near and dear to my heart. I recently introduced a very bipartisan bill called the Deploying American Blockchains Act. Passed this committee pretty unanimously, which is good to see. And I just want to make certain that you're committed to implementing that properly when it gets passed by both chambers, to really look at what America can do to take that next step in being the center for the evolution of blockchain technology.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So I haven't read your bill, Senator, but certainly support, uh, uh, um, American leadership in blockchain.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

Right. And shifting gears, you're somebody who's run pretty complex organizations. There's not a lot of people who've had that in their background. So, look forward to having you run help Secretary Lutnick run Commerce. Is it fair to say, in your experience in the government and in the private sector running complex organizations, does more money always equal better results?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, no, Senator.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

Sometimes the opposite, right? But that's, but that's something that I think most people who haven't run organizations would feel that that's an odd paradigm, right? Because typically the idea is more people, more money. You have a problem, throw money at it, throw people at it. Can you talk about what you've seen in your experience, why that's a fallacy?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, a lot of times, money can be spent on things that have not been, are not needed, I think, is a good way of putting it. So, I'll give you an example. When I was Under Secretary for Science, we had just won, we were just winning when I showed up, the Nobel Prize for lithium-ion chemistry. But the department was still spending money on lithium-ion battery discovery science, not scaling, not manufacturing, but discovery science. And so we were spending something that we won the Nobel Prize on, and I think we could say that that was a declaration of victory for discovery science. And so that was not a really great place to kind of keep on spending money into something that we already had victory on. So we refocused the money on the future. And so that, I think that's an example of the right way to think about where the taxpayer money should be should be looking at.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

So as we talk about cuts and assessments of different programs, it's absolutely something that's essential, right, to see where is the money most efficiently and setting up better processes, better systems, and taking advantage of technology is a much better way to go than just randomly throwing a bunch of money into a problem.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Absolutely, and I'm going to be mildly dangerous and bring up Hanford with Senator Cantwell. There was a lot of money spent for a very long period of time and a lot of different directions have been—I'm almost paraphrasing the senator from many years ago—heading in different directions that were not accomplishing very much. And when the senator looked at me and Secretary Brouillette 8 years ago and said, Can you say that we're going to focus on the things that work rather than the things that are not working, not pivot back and forth, and get things done? and one of the proudest things that I think the two of us and others did was last couple of days of the previous administration was to call up the senator and say that we had completed construction.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

That's great. Shifting gears again. 25 years ago, so we're in the 25th year anniversary of what I think is the most toxic, most outrageously terrible bill in the history of the United States of America, which is the US-China Normalization Act. The GDP of China at that point in time, 25 years ago, was $1.2 trillion. It's projected to be $20 trillion next year. Who won and who lost?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

The accession of China to the WTO and the normalization was very, very poor to the U.S. economy, and in particular to the manufacturing workers. And about 5 million people lost their jobs. And given the velocity of money in the communities, that you can multiply that by 5 or 6. So we lost about 25 to 30 million jobs in this country as a result of, to a large degree, of that topic.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

What kind of jobs?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Well, certainly the manufacturing jobs were the 5 million that had

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

dropped. These are jobs that are family-sustaining wages where you could live, provide for a family, retire with dignity.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yeah, dignity and middle-class jobs is what was lost because of that.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

And what would happen in your mind If we just ignored it, if we just said, look, if we can make cheap goods some other country and bring them into the United States, where would we be in 10 years?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

We're— I think the trends that we're seeing around fentanyl, trends that we're seeing in small-town America that really accelerated over the last 20 years because of that collapse of manufacturing and related jobs. Yeah, I think you'll see that continue. And I think, I think all of us, you know, don't want to see that continue.

Senator Bernie Moreno (R-OH)SPEAKER_03

Well, thank you. And recognize Senator Baldwin.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Mr. Dabbar. Congratulations on your nomination. I want to pick off, or pick up, on a point that our ranking member made in her opening comments. When Congress passed the bipartisan infrastructure law, we included a bipartisan amendment in this committee that put the Minority Business Development Agency into statute. Our intention was to invest in entrepreneurs and small businesses by expanding the reach of business centers that provide high-quality technical assistance to minority business enterprises, including counseling and mentoring, assisting with access to capital and contracts, and supporting job creation and retention. That recent bipartisan accomplishment led by many members of this committee, and again on a bipartisan basis, has been dismissed by this administration, which is set on eliminating the agency and closing the business centers in our states. President Trump, in dismantling the Minority Business Development Agency, issued an executive order that requires a report, and that report needs to explain which functions of the Minority Business Development Agency are statutorily required, which is what we did in this committee when we included our amendment. My calls for that report have gone unanswered. So, Mr. Dabbar, if confirmed, I will be following up with you to get that report and the answers on the Minority Business Development Agency. Can I count on you to be responsive?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will certainly make certain that we respond to your letter.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

Mr. Dabbar, we have seen the Minority Business Development Agency grant termination notice that was signed by a DOGE member named Nate Cavanaugh. Mr. Cavanaugh signed a notice claiming that he was acting under the authority of the acting under secretary of the Minority Business Development Agency, Keith Sonderling. We have since learned that Mr. Cavanaugh may have potentially sent these grant termination notices without Mr. Sonderling's approval, which, if true, raises very serious questions about whether DOGE is now running the Department of Commerce. So, Mr. Dabbar, if confirmed, will you commit to review the MBDA grant termination notices that were signed by Mr. Cavanaugh and promptly inform this committee whether Mr. Cavanaugh sent those notices with proper approval?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

If I'm so honored to be confirmed, I have a great amount of experience in running organizations, including review criteria of who has certain approvals. I did that as undersecretary. So

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

you will immediately let us know whether Mr. Kavanaugh had the authority and approval to sign those grant termination notices?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will certainly look into it, Senator. I don't know the details, but I will certainly look into it if I'm confirmed.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

Well, and provide those details.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will respond to any of the requests that you've, you've submitted.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

In Wisconsin, our biohealth tech hub furthers the state position as a global leader in personalized medicine. The first tranche of funding provided by the CHIPS and Science Act has been disbursed, but there are millions more owed to the Tech Hubs Program over the next 5 years. I understand the administration is considering submitting a budget request to Congress that would eliminate the Economic Development Administration that disperses those funds. If confirmed, do I have your commitment to keeping the promises that were made to the technology hubs?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So I'm not familiar with the budget proposals that are being drafted and so on, but I'll follow whatever the law is and whatever is appropriated by Congress.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

So you would— you're— I have your commitment to keeping the promises that we made to the tech hubs. Is that what you said?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will follow authorization and appropriations.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

The Tech Hubs will have an enormous amount of potential to make strides in artificial intelligence, in quantum computing, in advanced manufacturing, in addition to advancements in personalized medicine like the one that's housed in Wisconsin. Under your leadership, how will the Department of Commerce utilize innovation from these regional technology hubs?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, I'll give you a Wisconsin example. So, of the four number one supercomputers that were built at DOE, three were built in Wisconsin. And I was there, I went to go visit. And they not only do DOE computers, but many across the country, including for national security.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

Yes.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, Wisconsin's leadership of that, and manufacturing, manufacturing of high-performance computers, and obviously, the workforce in Wisconsin was highly important in order for us to do that. So, I have personal experience in Wisconsin on workforce, on AI and computing, and it was vitally important to me back then, and will be vital for the country going forward.

Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)SPEAKER_10

Thank you.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Senator Moran.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_11

Chairman, thank you. And Mr. Dabbar, welcome. Good morning. A couple of things mostly related to to budget and to trade, although Senator Klobuchar, in her failure to ask one of her questions, asked me to ask it. I just would remind you she and I co-chair the Travel and Tourism Caucus in the Senate, and we are looking to see support from the Department of Commerce in regard to the events that are occurring in our country related to FIFA and all the potential business and opportunities our country has there, plus then the the International Olympics in Los Angeles. Our country has a lot of preparation to be prepared for those that number of guests. What I want to talk to you about first is NOAA. I find some reports disturbing about the significant budget cuts at NOAA along with personnel shortages. I'd like to hear you confirm that it is important for our Weather Service offices to remain open 24/7. It's essential for public safety, it's essential for the economy of Kansas and agriculture producers, aviation industry, and that seems to be in jeopardy based upon where we are, and that they these Weather Service offices need to be staffed 24/7. And we will work in my capacity as an appropriator to see that the money is there, as I think we've done in the past. We just need to make sure that that would be implemented and supported by the Department of Commerce.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator, as someone who grew up just a few miles south of Independence, across the border, Tornado Alley, and the support that we have for many parts of the country, but including your state, is vitally important.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_11

I thank you for your willingness to cooperate. In addition to agriculture, we are the air capital of the world and manufacture more general aviation airplanes, but now that is expanding into many other aspects of aviation and aerospace. One of the key frameworks that has made this possible is a 1979 Agreement on Trade in Civil Aircraft, a pact among the U.S. and 33 other nations. That agreement is hugely important to the supply chain of the industry. The aviation industry is one of the bright spots in our export markets, and I need to know that you're willing to work to make certain that we go forward under that agreement in our relationships with those countries in a way that does not interfere with the supply chain of producing airplanes and aircraft and aerospace in this country?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Absolutely, Senator. I mean, clearly, in addition to agriculture, aerospace and defense is a comparative, comparative advantage industry for this country, and the, the net trade benefit positive, should, should continue to expand in that sector for us.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_11

Mr. Dabbar, you just highlighted why trade and tariffs are so important to me as a Kansan: aviation, aerospace, and agriculture. We are an export-dependent state, and we earn our living doing so. I want to talk to you a moment again about the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, the MEP, MEP. Last month, the Department of Commerce informed 10 states' the MEP program centers that it would not renew their funding. This is true despite strong bipartisan support for the program and seemingly in alignment with the Trump administration's interest in improving the environment for increasing manufacturing in the United States. Do you have any thoughts about how MEP fits into the future of manufacturing and the level of support we can see from the Department of Commerce for that program?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So I had the honor when I was undersecretary to support manufacturing R&D efforts for new advanced manufacturing when I was undersecretary at a number of different senators' states here when I was running national labs. So at least from my point of view, how do we drive advanced manufacturing for the next step is vitally important in programs to support that, I think, are vitally important. So I would certainly look into that program and try to see how that advances advanced manufacturing for the future.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_11

Mr. Dabbar, it seems like you've done a lot of traveling. I don't remember we've ever met in Kansas, and I would like to take that 50th state off your list or put it on your list. And I assume by that smile and not headshake, you and I will visit my state together.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I'll be glad to visit Wichita and visit some factories or wherever else makes sense, Senator.

Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS)SPEAKER_11

Uh, thank you for answering my questions.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Senator Moran, and I can attest Kansas is a wonderful place to be. Senator Kim.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier in this hearing, when you were actually having an exchange with the chairman, you talked about something that caught my attention. You said we should be trying to reindustrialize in order to compete with China, improve our national security. You also expressed your support for the CHIPS and Science Act. Do you see the CHIPS and Science Act and what it's trying to do there as part of an effort to try to reindustrialize and try to push us further forward to be able to better compete with China?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

So I guess I'm interested. This is something I raised with Secretary Lutnick as well in his hearing. I was trying to think through, okay, on that part, when we deal with semiconductor chips, we've used that as an effort to move forward. I guess I wanted to ask you the same question I asked him, which is, do you think that there are other sectors, other types of technologies where we can envision sort of a 2.0, not necessarily on semiconductors again, but I'm trying to think through where do we go from here? How do we try to take the lessons that we learned from CHIPS and Science and see whether or not there's another area of critical technology that we should be working together in a public-private partnership to be able to move forward? What are your thoughts on that?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So let me hit on one that I know reasonably well, which is energy technologies. America's leadership and now global leadership in energy certainly is in part on production, but certainly in part of it is on technology. And most of which, what we're deploying today from the energy sector, was not invented in a commercial form 20 years ago. And I know the pipeline quite well of energy technologies given my background. Let me pick one that might be associated with your state, which is fusion. The likelihood of fusion becoming commercial in the next decade, and in the next couple of years first commercial fusion cores having big accomplishments is very, very likely. Princeton and others are big supporters of that. So I think as we think about those sort of things, some of the ideas that you were asking the question about can certainly make sense.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

I know some of that crosses different jurisdictions of departments and agencies, but if you are confirmed, is that something you'd be willing to work with me on in terms of trying to think through how we move forward in terms of using some of those types of tools and try to see if we can create some bipartisan energy going forward?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yeah. Yes, Senator.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

Well, I'm curious, you know, you also did a lot when it comes to quantum. Do you see space there as well to kind of further the government's role in terms of trying to supercharge that type of technology moving forward?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator. I think what's been accomplished because of the National Quantum Act that was previously passed, and in particular, supported out of this committee with the various agencies, that the opportunity there to move from research to first deployment of systems, I think we're there. And so I think working with Congress, and obviously I think Commerce within its— already within NIST, primarily within its capabilities, but how do we move forward? I supported previously the National Quantum Initiative Reauthorization Act, which I still think is being considered. I'd love to work with you and other members of this committee as that gets considered.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

A lot of what we talked about just now was about efforts to move forward on advanced manufacturing, trying to supercharge it. But I'd like to just kind of take a step back here. You talked earlier about the importance of science and technology investments writ large. I guess I just wanted to ask you what you think the government's role is when it comes to basic research. So not necessarily end-of-implementation side, but do you think that we are at the right level of basic research investment as a US government? I just wanted to get a sense. Do you think it's too high, too low? Where do you think we're at?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, I've I've talked about this a lot over the last many years, given my last roles. The the best bang for the buck for the taxpayer many times is discovery, and the reason why is that it's too far away from cash flow for the private sector to fund well. So, if you go to, although there was history certainly in New Jersey and elsewhere, but to a very large degree in today's environment, you go to GE, or you go to a lot of these companies and say, Please invest in very early discovery science, and they'll say, No, and, We want to do it higher up the TRL level. And so, the best place to invest the federal money is where the private sector really isn't, and the best place for that is discovery. So,

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

So, in terms of going back to that first question, that quote that I asked you about, that we need to re-industrialize in order to compete with China, would you also say then we need to be able to make sure we're investing in basic research in order to be able to compete with China?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, yes, Senator.

Senator Andy Kim (D-NJ)SPEAKER_07

Okay, thank you. And with that, I'll yield back.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Senator Schmitt.

Senator Eric Schmitt (R-MO)SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you. Now, am I right you grew up in Independence then?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

No, it was right south in a little town called Bartlesville.

Senator Eric Schmitt (R-MO)SPEAKER_04

I know Bartlesville. I know Bartlesville. Having run statewide three times in eight years, I know a lot of those towns. It's good to have you here. I did want to talk a little bit about— I know that trade is obviously a hot topic, and I think one of the things that's been illuminating for a lot of folks is to really kind of understand how we got here. I think after World War II, there were a lot of favorable conditions created so that our allies could get back on their feet, principally to defeat Soviet communism. That happened, and our foreign policy was sort of dedicated to that same proposition. That happened. But after the Cold War ended, there wasn't an adjustment by way of foreign policy nor on economic policy. So that's how you end up— you wake up and you go to, you have Liberation Day and you find out that all these countries have not just tariffs, but all these sort of trade practices that make it difficult for our goods to get into their markets. You can't sell beef in Australia. You can't You don't see an American car in Europe. You don't see an American car in Japan. And so from my perspective, it's about time that we rebalance that equation. And that's exactly what's happening right now. And I think you've got— from my perspective, you've got two buckets. You've got China and you've got everybody else. And everybody else, that's what everybody's working through right now. Is that how you see it?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator,

Senator Eric Schmitt (R-MO)SPEAKER_04

That's fair. And I think ultimately you're seeing this investment. You're seeing the commitment from a lot of companies to start to do their advanced manufacturing, their production in the United States. I don't think it's—no one's naive. We're not going to produce everything here. But getting back our fair share as opposed to those jobs going to China or to Mexico, I think it's time that we have an administration that stood up for working folks who've been kind of left behind by this globalist dream that borders don't matter, and it's just nations don't matter. And I think that's what we're sort of on the precipice of. So anyway, not to put a bow on the debate because it's ongoing, but I did want to ask you also, the first two years I was here, I was the ranking member on the Space and Science Subcommittee. We dealt a lot with commercial space. And I just wanted to get your thoughts. This is a really important area for us. You talk about this global—this competition we have, this great powers competition with China. It's not confined to the terrestrial. It's not confined to the sea. It's in space, too. And having a robust commercial space sector is really important for us to compete. And you talked about discovery. We don't really know what those discoveries might be on the moon or in Mars, but we know that we better find them before China because they certainly have designs. Have you been brought up to speed, or can you speak to how your office intends to sort of operate both with respect to NOAA and AST over at—because what you don't want to have is this sort of turf battle that defines so much of what happens in Washington. And I think the newness of all this provides opportunities for greater alignment. How do you see that? How do you plan to deal with that?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So I have a little bit of a background at DOE. We actually did Mars work with JPL and with NASA, and we looked at nuclear propulsion. So there's a lot of technology advancement. I certainly, I would work very closely with NASA and the facilities at Kennedy and elsewhere to make certain that we continue to suck in more investment and more launches and more commercial, and use the footprint that we have in this country. And part of that, in order to drive the economy, the aerospace sector, which we're so incredibly strong lead in, including in your state. And so I would advocate very strongly with my fellow science and technology, other partners at NASA and elsewhere to make certain that we open up for the world as well as our own launches and expand our leadership that we're already doing pretty well on.

Senator Eric Schmitt (R-MO)SPEAKER_04

Well, we'd love to get you back home to Missouri. And because, as you mentioned, there's a lot going on, particularly in the aerospace sector and the defense tech industry that sort of exists, I think is really important. And then finally, I just want to put it on your radar. I think one of the concerns with AI is it's a huge opportunity. I don't think it's Skynet about ready the universe to be destroyed, nor do I think cancer is going to be figured out tomorrow. It's probably somewhere in the middle, but it's a lot of opportunity. But one of the concerns I think a lot of folks have is that what you don't want to have is AI manipulated in a way that affects people's right to express themselves or free speech. And that'll be sort of on your plate too. We just want to make sure people, regardless of your opinion or your point of view, have the ability to speak your mind, and you don't have this—we saw some of the efforts from the previous administration to put their thumb on the scale with big tech, and you're going to be in a position to make sure that doesn't happen. And I'm sure that you share those concerns and want to make sure that it's an open platform, right, for folks?

Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yes, Senator.

Senator Eric Schmitt (R-MO)SPEAKER_04

Okay. Thank you.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Senator Peters.

Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Dabbar, congratulations on your nomination. Good to have you here today. Sir, I believe the Department of Commerce has an absolutely critical role in supporting U.S. manufacturing. That's why I was so concerned when last month the department briefly tried to cancel funding for 10 states' Manufacturing Extension Partnership programs, or MEPs. The department appeared to quickly reverse course on this decision and announced that these centers would be, quote, "under review" until the end of the fiscal year. I hope you're aware of MEPs, but MEPs are essential to the U.S. manufacturing base. Every state has a center that's charged with helping small and medium manufacturers make their businesses successful, especially through workforce training and integration with advanced manufacturing, as well as putting AI into their manufacturing process to increase efficiency oftentimes dramatically. Michigan's MEP, the Michigan Manufacturing Tech Center, has been extremely successful in helping businesses save money. Last year alone, they helped nearly 600 businesses save roughly 5,000 jobs in my state. MMTC generates a lot of its own operating costs, but they still rely on federal funding for about a third of their operations. The Michigan Center contract is up for renewal on July 1st, and they're waiting for some funding certainty even sooner than that. Otherwise, they risk losing services that they can provide to these small and medium manufacturers. Historically, the MEP program has been bipartisan. That's why I think it's unconscionable that this administration is trying to eliminate something that has had broad, broad bipartisan support and support within the business community as well. So, my question for you is just basically yes or no. If confirmed, do you commit to carrying out any appropriated funding for MEPs and providing certainty for these centers in accordance with congressional intent?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, we'll certainly follow through on appropriation, appropriated line items and authorization. I would need— I certainly, I certainly know about the program, Senator, that, that you mentioned, and, uh, and we'll certainly, uh, execute as, as per appropriated and, uh, and authorized.

Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)SPEAKER_02

So you're familiar with the program and your assessment of it, at least based on what you know?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I haven't— I have not done— I just have awareness. But I will say, Senator, that having run advanced manufacturing development, R&D work for new advanced manufacturing work while I was running the national labs for the country was a clear area of mine that I ran. So I have a great amount of experience in that area, including in some things that people may not think of, such as FRIB at Michigan State, in which manufacturing of isotopes, which may not be normal manufacturing, but certainly was in my scope, which was very important. Obviously, isotopes is particularly important given what's happened with supply chains and Russia.

Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, it was good to bring up FRIB. Those are bonus points right there, and you're right, the work that they do is is amazing with isotopes. I was just talking to the MSU president about that earlier this week. It's quite a program. Mr. Dabbar, since the president's so-called Liberation Day, which the better probably the better title would be National Sales Tax Day, we've seen just immense chaos in the U.S. economy. I'm constantly hearing from Michigan businesses, especially small businesses, that indiscriminate tariffs and facing the higher costs associated with those are also creating supply chain disruptions. And we all know that customers are basically going to bear the the blunt of these effects, are going to see higher costs as they shop and buy everyday goods. So given the short- and long-term expected consequences of these tariffs, economic forecasters have actually updated, unfortunately, their projections to show for a likelihood of a U.S. is going to face a recession by the end of this year. JPMorgan increased their odds of a recession to 65%. Goldman Sachs just increased their forecast to 45% likelihood that we are going to have an economic recession, which is going to hurt Americans all across the country. I understand the administration is now in the midst of a 90-day pause on the vast majority of these reciprocal sales taxes to allow time for negotiation with trade agreements. The fact of the matter, though, is that even even with this pause, there's still just widespread confusion as to how businesses are going to be impacted by these tariffs. I had one businessman just just recently in my office saying basically, A pause is not good. I can't do anything. I can't hire people. I can't make business decisions. This is going to hurt my business. A pause hurts my business as well. And I think you would agree the one thing businesses want is certainty. If they have changes in rules, they can adapt. They may not like them, but they can adapt. But you have to have certainty, and that certainty just does not exist. So my question for you, if confirmed, how do you plan to provide greater certainty to U.S. businesses so they can do what they do best, which is provide services to their customers and grow and create jobs instead of being in a world of chaos?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, Senator, as Deputy Secretary, I'll be supporting Secretary Lutnick and the President as directed. As a general point, I'm fully in support of the President and the Secretary's positions on the negotiations. I think one of the great steps the President took previously was tariffs on China that prevented the US car industry from being really decimated like Europe's is right now by the Chinese. And so, I think that was very good steps that were made back then that really have protected the car industry amongst other industries. But still, since 2000, there's been about a net $20 trillion of net trade deficit, which is a stunning number, and the numbers have been getting higher every year on the annual basis. So, the President and the Secretary have taken action, building on the action of the first administration of the President, to try to do what was, I think, bipartisanly supported actually on those topics. And the challenge is quite high, and I think the steps that are going to go from now until where I think the President's targeting will accomplish a lot of pulling back that increasingly problems for Michigan and elsewhere.

Senator Gary Peters (D-MI)SPEAKER_02

Very good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Senator Blunt Rochester.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, Mr. Dabbar. You've heard from some of my colleagues voice their concerns, but I also want to be very clear about my concern over the gutting of the Minority Business Development Agency. At his hearing before this committee, I personally asked Secretary Lutnick if he opposed dismantling the MBDA, and he said yes, and then gutted the agency's leadership and core functions anyway. And it's been reported that the agency has gone from 100 people to 1 person. I've heard they've been fired. I've heard they're on leave. That broken commitment undermines decades of bipartisan work. It was created by a Republican president in 1969. Organizations like the National Urban League fought to codify the agency, and ultimately the goal and what it has done is expand economic opportunity for communities in my state, as well as across the country. I was proud to join Senators Cantwell and Baldwin in writing letters opposing any effort to dismantle the MBDA. So my questions—first, I have a yes-or-no question. If you can't answer it in a yes or no, just say, I can't answer it. Do you support the gutting of the MBDA?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I don't have enough information.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

You, could you talk about what steps that you would take to invest in minority-owned businesses that have the potential to transform our economy for the better?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

As, as Deputy Secretary, my role would be primarily, besides the direction of the president and the secretary, is to execute on the authorization and the appropriations of the Senate.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

I actually served as a deputy secretary in my state, so I understand the role of Deputy Secretary. I also understand that it's an opportunity to also provide wisdom, direction, advice. And I know you've worked in many different capacities, public sector, private sector. In your work and in your career, have you worked to unlock opportunities for minority-owned businesses? And what recommendations would you give to the secretary towards those goals?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Probably the one time when I dealt with that was when I was Under Secretary for Science, and there was a program at DOE that did not report to me, but there was a DOE program on the topic.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

I will follow up with with more detail. But I have to say, I have a lack of confidence after the secretary sat here and said he wouldn't dismantle it, and now it's being gutted. I want to shift gears. We are, as has been said by many on the dais, in a competition with China on quantum. They've spent over $15 billion in quantum, public quantum funding, far outpacing the US, which has invested, my understanding, $932 million in 2023. There's also a major shortage of skilled quantum scientists and engineers, with McKinsey stating there's only one qualified quantum candidate for every three openings. And DOGE is not helping. It's again reported that they've fired over 70 NIST employees in March. This is also a concerning trend for a technology area that has the potential to revolutionize computers and our economy, as you have stated. Are you concerned that we are not currently meeting the moment when it comes to our quantum competition with China? And what are your thoughts on this?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, it's an area I know well. I think the investment that was made previously under the National Quantum Initiative Act was a very good first step. I supported in testimony before House Science about the reauthorization, and if I'm so lucky to be confirmed, I'd love to work with this committee on that. I do think that the science has now moved to the point that we could actually start building real devices, real computers. I have quite a bit of experience in that, and I think this is the time to go do that.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

I know I want to turn to cybersecurity as well. Quantum is a critical technology for the future of this industry, and NIST works on quantum cryptography, including encryption designed to resist quantum-based computer attacks. While these quantum attacks haven't occurred yet, security experts warn bad actors are stockpiling encrypted data to take advantage of future breakthroughs, called harvest now, decrypt later attacks. Given the current federal employment environment, how will you grow the quantum workforce to help protect our economy from potential quantum attacks?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, the Secretary is very focused on post-quantum crypto efforts by NIST. We will continue and accelerate that. I have personal experience on this, in this quantum topic. The President's letter to Director Kratsios also highlights this topic. And so I think we would love to work with you and the rest of the Senate to to try to accelerate that with the next quantum bill, amongst other program offices.

Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester (D-DE)SPEAKER_00

I will submit some more questions for the record on supply chains and also artificial intelligence. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Senator Luján. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that very much. Mr. Dabbar, thank you for being before us today. The first question I have, Mr. Dabbar, it's a continuation of something that my colleague was just inquiring about and having a conversation with you. Congress appropriated over $68 million to the MBDA. Are you aware what the MBDA is?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, I am, Senator.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Now, the $68 million that was funded here is under the current funding bill. So this this is recent. This is now. So the agency could effectively carry out its mission to promote growth and expand economic opportunities. But as you may be aware, and I'll ask if you are aware, Secretary Lutnick and the Trump administration have dismantled the MBDA. Are you aware of that?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I only know what I've picked up from the press.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

You're here today to be a leader at the Department of Commerce. Have you taken time to study the Department of Commerce?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I certainly have, but I don't know every detail at the department right now. And that's one of the ones that I don't know the details on the current stats.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

What areas are you strongest in your knowledge base with the Department of Commerce?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Well, certainly the area of China security. As you know, I ran lab efforts in your state extensively as well as some of the nuclear operations. So, the China topic, which I recently testified before ENR on about two months ago, I think I have quite a lot of experience. Obviously, I ran the bulk of the National Quantum Initiative. I built four number-one supercomputers. So, while I was at DOE, I ran WIPP. So, we also generated vast amounts of patents, as you know, under Bayh-Dole and Stevenson-Wydler. I could keep going, Senator, but

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

well, and

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

those are a reasonable amount of things that I have, uh, quite a bit of exposure to.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

In the— in all of those responsibilities, did you ever work with small businesses?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Oh, absolutely, in particular at Environmental Management at DOE, if you may remember the small business topic at DOE that certainly New Mexico was part of.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Is it fair to say you support small business success?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

I would encourage you to learn more about the MBDA. The MBDA was created to help with small business success, subcontracting with prime contracts, looking at the major initiatives and investments that America has always had depends on success with small businesses. The MBDA is one of its one of its own the only kind that exists to be able to provide more support, and I would argue it's the only one within the Department of Commerce. It's why there was broad support, bipartisan support, for this very small investment, I would argue, when you look at the United States budget, $68 million. And it's very concerning when the secretary, when he was here before as a nominee, said he also supported small businesses, and he's leading efforts with Donald Trump to eliminate one of the components that exists, and, I would argue, ignoring law. This is in the laws that were passed by the legislative branch of government, and one of the prime responsibilities, I'm sure you've been asked by several of my colleagues about the MBDA today. So my question simply is, because this was under current funding, is where did the money go? So do you know where the department has diverted the millions of dollars Congress appropriated to the MBDA?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, as I mentioned, Senator, I don't— I'm not confirmed. I don't have, you know, insight into individual line item spending at the department right now.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

So, if confirmed, will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to this committee on where specifically our money, taxpayer money for the MBDA, has been rerouted?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, I, I can absolutely commit that I have, that I have, and I have a long track record of being of coming back in for oversight before the Senate and the House when I was undersecretary, and that I will continue to do that if I'm so lucky to get your vote.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

I appreciate that. I'm looking for a specific commitment in this very narrow space. Will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to this committee on where specifically this money has been rerouted?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I don't know if it's been rerouted or not, Senator, but when it comes to financial accountability, for anything in the department, including that program, you have my commitment.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Let me ask the question differently then. If the word rerouted is what we're going to get hung up on, will you commit to tracing these funds and reporting back to the committee where they are?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Absolutely. About any funding at the department, you absolutely have my commitment that you, that, that you will have proper feedback for oversight like I did when I was undersecretary.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Does that include specifically this money for the MBDA?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Commit to getting back to this committee and reporting where the money is?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will certainly— I will certainly look into it, and if you ask a question, we will respond.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

I'm asking— I'm asking right now, will you commit to get back to— it's yes or no. It's not, I'm going to look into this, I'm going to theoretically try to figure out something. I— the money may be somewhere, it may have rerouted is a word that clearly is, is a bit of distance between us. Can you just say yes or no? If the answer is no, the answer is no. I respect that.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will commit to follow every dollar and report back as, as you request on anything in the department.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

I'll be very surprised if you do not get confirmed, um, given the votes and the natures with all these confirmations. You will be in this role, um, if you keep your word. You will be back for oversight hearings, and I'm sharing with you right now, I will be asking about it. If I need to, I'll send a formal letter. I'll ask all my colleagues that voted for funding to get onto that letter so that one of the first letters that you have when you go and you sit at your new desk will be this question. If I can be clear about that, is that clear?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

It is clear, and I would like to highlight that having run vast operations in your state, including very, very sensitive environmental management topics in Carlsbad and at Los Alamos and quantum operations at Sandia, I think I have a large track record with many, many people in your state on many topics in terms of of of all sorts of things, including accountability.

Senator Ben Ray Luján (D-NM)SPEAKER_05

Appreciate that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Senator Rosen.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

Well, before I begin my questions, I want to, well, of course, thank you, Chair Cruz, and thank you to the nominee for your willingness to serve again. But I want to associate myself with what Senator Luján has been speaking about because our MBDAs are very important in Nevada. As you may or may not know, 99% of businesses in Nevada are small businesses, many of them minority businesses. We rely heavily on these services, and so I just want to support my colleague on that. I'm going to move on to something I know we also care about is our BEAD proposals. So Nevada's BEAD proposal was approved over 3 months ago. The Department of Commerce has still not released the $417 million allocated to connect all Nevadans to high-speed, reliable internet. The proposal is tech-neutral, cost-effective, uses all of its funding to building broadband to reach 100% of unserved Nevadans. 100%. We have a rural frontier state, the most mountainous state in the lower 48. Each type of technology is used, with over 10% of our unserved locations to be covered by satellite. Nevada BEAD awards average cost average cost per location is so much lower than any federally funded broadband programs in the state in recent years. So, Mr. Dabbar, I'd like to just again ask you a simple yes-or-no question. If confirmed, will you commit to releasing the funding for the Nevada BEAD proposal? It has been approved. It has been fully approved. It's tech-neutral, cost-effective, fulfills the mission of bringing high-speed, reliable broadband to every Nevadan. Will you commit to releasing that funding, yes or no?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I will commit to certainly look at improving what's been going on.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

I'll take that as a no then. Improve?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I don't know, Senator. I apologize for not knowing the Nevada

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

It's been approved. So you're saying you're not going to release funding that has been approved?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

If something has been fully approved, it's been

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

fully approved.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

I wouldn't— I would want to make certain it It, it is, Senator. It

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

has been fully approved.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Okay,

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

I will go under oath and tell you it has been fully approved according to the proposal. The money has been frozen. Will you commit to unfreezing approved, appropriated money by the United States Congress?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, Senator, I feel very passionate about the BEAD Program and the fact that the 14-step processes have not actually gotten to deployment to Nevada and elsewhere. It's obviously been quite topical by many people, including a recent book. I agree with you on the general point that I think I hear from you, amongst others, about that process has not gone as well as it as it should have.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

What? But the process— it's— our process is complete. I'm trying to be clear. It has been completed. It has been approved. The money is coming and now it's frozen. So it's not that something is in process or under review or any of those things. This is a project that has been completed according to the appropriate specifications and approved. That's all. Well, we'll move on to extreme heat because I know we're— I'm going to spend my time fighting about this, but Nevada's home to two of the fastest warming cities in the country, Las Vegas and Reno. And in 2024, our emergency rooms experienced a record number of visits for heat-related illnesses. And in Southern Nevada alone, over 500 people died as a result of extreme heat. I know in Texas, the chairman's state's pretty hot too. So you have some of these similar issues with extreme heat. NOAA's CAP program builds community resilience to extreme weather, and in Nevada it supports the Nevada Heat Lab, which focuses on mitigating the effects of extreme heat and protecting families from extreme heat. So, if confirmed, would you support the continuation of programs like CAP that aim to address the challenges of extreme heat? We just don't have them in Nevada. Like I said, Texas, known for being pretty hot in the summer. And what role do you think the Department of Commerce should have in helping us?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

NOAA has a broad set on a regional basis. A lot of them are university-centric for drought and for heat.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

We have both in Nevada.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Also, there's some current work being done by what I would think is lower tech but important things like planes, helicopters, balloons. For some of the mapping and providing feedback and input to farmers and others around the topic. And, you know, there's some prospect around using satellites. And I think moving the technology stack forward on your exact point, Senator, to get faster information, better information out of NOAA, moving up the technology stack is something I think would be very valuable for me to look at.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

Thank you. And if the chairman would indulge me for a question about tourism. Thank you, I so appreciate it. Travel and tourism are not only the backbone of Nevada's economy, but I can tell you every single state in this nation, it's a top economic driver for us, supporting 15 million jobs nationwide, and international tourism contributes over $180 billion alone towards the U.S. economy. So in the coming years, the U.S. is hosting several important major international sporting events that attract visitors, of course, from across the country, but from around the world: this year's Formula 1 Grand Prix in Las Vegas, to the FIFA World Cup in '26, to the 2028 Summer Olympics, so much more. Unfortunately, I have concerns that some of the recent administration's actions could make traveling to the U.S. a little harder, a little less attractive at a crucial time for us to prioritize tourism, particularly the Olympics. It's just such a shining light for everyone around the world, and everybody looks forward to that. So Mr. Dabbar, if confirmed, will you ensure that supporting travel and tourism is a priority at the Department of Commerce, understanding how important it is to our nation within the Trump administration? And will you work with me to quickly confirm a qualified individual to serve as the first-ever Assistant Secretary for Travel and Tourism? That was a position I was proud to create through bipartisan legislation with Senators Wicker, Sullivan, Klobuchar, and many others on this committee.

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, yes, Senator.

Senator Jacky Rosen (D-NV)SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Mr. Dabbar, there is reportedly a backlog of contracts awaiting approval at the Department of Commerce, with only five or six being approved per day. NOAA alone has 5,700 contracts set to expire this year. These contracts include everything from post-hurricane flood assessments to janitorial services. Recently, NOAA came close to letting the contract expire for the Advanced Weather Interactive Processing System. The system is critical for weather forecasters to access weather data from satellites, radar, surface stations, and computer models, and to issue weather warnings. More recently, a data center at Texas A&M was shut down for several days because of bottlenecks in the department's contracting process, depriving Texas emergency and water managers of critical drought forecasts that help them manage reservoirs and track storm surge data and hurricane forecasts in real time. There are other critical contracts for Texas that are in Commerce's contracting backlog, such as routine maintenance repairs to NOAA's aging Hurricane Hunter fleet. Can you commit to addressing the problems with the Department of Commerce contract process and resolving the backlog of contracts?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Uh, yes, Chairman.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. The Department of Commerce plays an underappreciated role in U.S. science policy, something you have a great deal of experience with, emphasizing applied science, technology transfer, and commercialization to drive economic growth. Given your experience managing national laboratories and advancing tech transfer at the Department of Energy, what lessons could the Commerce Department apply to better accelerate public-private partnerships and the commercialization of federally funded R&D?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So, Senator, my kind of philosophy around federal government spending is it should be the equivalent of venture money. It should be the equivalent of triggering money to get the private sector moving in a certain direction. Certainly discovery science is a big part of it, but how do you translate it, as your question posed, is vitally important. So taking a look at the structure around Bayh-Dole and Wyler Stevenson-Wydler that actually makes that possible, but how do we make that easier? And also, how do we set up better communities for people to see what we've invented or supported invention, either in the private sector or in universities, and how do we make it easier for people to go do that is certainly something I did at DOE and would look to push that forward at Commerce.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I look forward to working with you in that regard. Finally, the United States has been a global leader in technological innovation due to our free enterprise system and strong rule of law. Our nation's leadership in critical emerging technologies like artificial intelligence will hinge on whether we embrace entrepreneurial freedom or instead adopt a European-style command-and-control regulatory scheme. You correctly recognize that the United States must continue to outpace China and remain the global leader in AI. What is at risk if we go the direction of Europe and the Biden administration and adopt heavy-handed AI regulations requiring prior approval before new innovations can be implemented?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So the AI sector, and you can't even say sector, but the AI applications are so darn broad, everything from energy to agriculture to financial services, and I could keep going, is so wide that regulating something with that breadth and that width and people's ability to invent things across those and many other industries would impede economic progress. And that whole sector and productivity for the whole economy and the welfare for everyday American citizens. So free enterprise and allowing any— allowing everyone to develop across those and every other industry is vitally important for a broad set of reasons.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

During the Biden administration, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, NIST, including the AI Safety Institute, looked at the worst of the European Union tech regulation, policing, quote, "misinformation" as a part of, quote, "measuring AI" and its, quote, "risks." This was all nonsense. If confirmed, how will you restore NIST to its apolitical statutory mission and eliminate Trojan horse social policy?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

So NIST has certain strengths that is clearly a leader in the world, and one's on standards, one's on identifying the kind of the the capabilities of certain technologies and measuring those. And so those, I think trying to have NIST stick to the traditional area that it does very well in versus expanding it into other areas, yeah, I think that's probably the right way to go for for for NIST in in this particular area.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Terrific. So my final question is required of all nominees. If confirmed, do you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to the committee's requests and to appear before the committee when requested?

Paul DabbarSPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator.

Chairman Ted Cruz (R-TX)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I have letters of support from various organizations for Mr. Dabbar nomination, and I ask unanimous consent for them to be inserted in the hearing record. Without objection, so ordered. Senators will have until the close of business on Friday, May 2nd, to submit questions for the record. The nominee will have until the close of business on Monday, May 5th, to respond to those questions. So you'll have a busy weekend. That concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned.