To receive testimony on Department of Defense personnel policies and programs in review of the Defense Authorization Request for Fiscal Year 2026 and the Future Years Defense Program

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

hearing in session from the Armed Services Personnel Subcommittee. We appreciate our witnesses here today and thank you all for your service. You're going to find today is—and as the last couple weeks have been very, very busy, so we'll have people in and out. I think we have three votes going on, one going on as we speak, and so we'll be in and out. Hopefully, we can get more people here today. We have other hearings going on, so thank you for being here. And Ranking Member Warren, thank you for being here.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Thank

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

you. We had to sprint to get

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

here, right?

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Yeah. All right. Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Personnel meets this afternoon to provide an important opportunity for senior leaders at the Department of Defense to highlight areas where Congress can support and strengthen our military's most valuable asset: its people. People are our most valuable asset. I think we should all know that. Those who volunteer to serve in and out of uniform are the backbone of our national defense, and this is a critical discussion as we prepare for the NDAA for fiscal year of 2026. I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today: Lieutenant General Brian Eifler—Eifler?

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Eifler, sir.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Eifler, Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel for the United States Army; Vice Admiral Richard Cheeseman Jr., Chief of Naval Personnel for the United States Navy; Lieutenant General Michael Borgschulte— Borgschulte, sir. Borgschulte. That's worse than Tuberville, okay? Deputy Commandant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs for the United States Marine Corps; Lieutenant General Caroline M. Miller, Deputy Chief of Staff for Manpower, Personnel, and Services for the United States Air Force; and Ms. Katharine Kelley, Deputy Chief of Space Operations for Human Capital for the United States Space Force. I'm glad to see our military refocusing on warfighting and readiness after the previous administration prioritized DEI and abortion and other progressive policies initiatives over lethality. One of the reasons we're here today. This shift is already leading to renewed enthusiasm for personnel, for military service, and among the American people. While I'm encouraged by the recent improvements in military recruitment, I'm increasingly concerned about the quality of the recruits we're bringing in. Many of the services have lowered their standards to meet requirement goals. The Army and Navy's prep courses have seen some success, but that success only matters if they're actually raising the academic and physical performance of our recruits. The caliber of men and women we bring in directly affects readiness levels and the long-term strength and effectiveness of our military. So I'd like the witnesses to address the effect that lowered enlistment standards could have on long-term attrition and readiness and how you are ensuring you're not sacrificing quality for quantity. I'd also like to address the health of the force in this hearing. Military hospitals and clinics are facing staffing shortages, leading to reduced access to care, which ultimately impacts the health and retention of servicemembers and their families. This, combined with lower recruiting standards, means the force is more susceptible to health issues like obesity and mental health challenges. I'd like to hear what the services are doing to ensure the health and readiness of their military personnel. In recent years, this subcommittee has invested heavily into the quality of life of servicemembers, ensuring they and their families have the resources and support necessary to thrive both in and out of uniform. This remains a priority. However, these investments will be undermined if we fail to address the quality of recruitment and health of the force. Sustaining a healthy and effective military goes beyond simply meeting and recruiting missions. It requires a commitment to the well-being and long-term readiness of every single servicemember. So thank all the witnesses for being here today. I look forward to your testimony, and Senator Warren now can give her opening statement.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. So our annual posture review hearing provides the department and the military services the opportunity to discuss personnel priorities for the coming year. It's also a chance for members of this subcommittee to continue to address the major challenges confronting our all-volunteer force. After all, our ability to defend ourselves and defeat our adversaries depends on brave men and women stepping up and volunteering to serve. So I am pleased to see the military services are making progress in addressing their recruiting challenges since our last posture hearing. It's critical that we welcome and support anyone who wants to serve their country. But in just the last 2 months, President Trump has fired General C.Q. Brown and Admiral Lisa Franchetti. It sends a chilling message about who is and who is not welcome in our military. Secretary Hegseth has removed the military's top legal advisers. And the Army has reportedly cut training on combat medicine and the laws of war. Secretary Hegseth has announced plans to fire or push out 50,000 to 60,000 civilians, and he has already fired civilians who do everything from acquisitions to missile defense to child care for military families. So let's start with the civilian workforce. As Secretary Hegseth told this committee during his confirmation process, civilians are, quote, "important" and, quote, "provide continuity and expertise to our armed forces." DOD civilians are not just critical to supporting the military, they're also a bargain for taxpayers. The most recent study from the Federal Salary Council found that civilian employees earned nearly 25% less than their counterparts in the private sector. They come to work because they believe in the most important mission we have, and that is to keep Americans safe. But what are Co-Presidents Trump and Musk doing? Well, just last week, President Trump signed an illegal executive order attacking federal unions and stripping federal employees of their rights. At DOD, this won't make us safer. This won't make us more efficient. It will diminish morale and harm recruiting. DOGE has plans to slash the DOD workforce by 8%. The results will fall into one of three buckets, and none of them are good. First, the military manpower could be pressed into service to accomplish the tasks that are more appropriately formed— more appropriately performed by civilians. Or the federal government could pay billions more to backfill these employees by using contractors. Or critical work could just be left undone. So far, neither Elon Musk nor Secretary Hegseth has given any indication of how they plan to deal with the workload that these civilian employees currently perform. As part of the 8% planned reduction, Elon Musk has taken a chainsaw to DOD's probationary workforce. Think about what that means. It means firing workers who've been recently promoted or who have been hired to fill a critical need, often to fill gaps identified by members of this very committee. The law makes very clear that the Secretary must make sure that reductions do not jeopardize our national security. Specifically, the law, 10 U.S.C. Section 129a, mandates that the Secretary may not reduce the civilian workforce, quote, "unless the Secretary conducts an appropriate analysis of the impacts of such reductions on workload, military force structure, lethality, readiness, operational effectiveness, stress on the military force, and fully burdened costs," end quote. We have no indication that this analysis has occurred, and I look forward to working with members of this subcommittee to ensure that this administration complies with the law. It is also important for this subcommittee to understand how damaging the Trump administration's efforts to shut down the CFPB will be for service members and their families. An entire division of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau functions as the cop on the beat to enforce service members' consumer rights, and it has been remarkably effective. The CFPB has discovered more than $363 million in financial scams directly affecting our service members and veterans, and it has gotten that $363 million returned directly to the service members and vets who were cheated. Dismantling the CFPB will devastate the enforcement of the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act and the Military Lending Act, which provide special protections for service members. For example, current law permits service members to break their lease if they are deployed or if their duty station is transferred. The law also protects service members from being foreclosed on or having their car repossessed without a court order. Without the CFPB to enforce these key laws, service members are now vulnerable to scams and predatory practices that distract from the mission and undermine our military readiness. I also continue to be concerned that this administration does not understand how essential women are to our military. None of our military branches would have met their recruiting goals if women had not volunteered, and we cannot afford to dismiss the talents of more than half our population. I am very concerned that this administration is more focused on pushing women out of combat roles and reinstalling a glass ceiling that will only make us weaker. There are several topics I want to focus on with our witnesses today. First, child care. We need to make sure that service members have access to high-quality, affordable child care. The most recent Blue Star Families survey confirmed that child care, quote, "continues to be a top barrier to employment for active duty spouses," close quote. Failing to address these shortfalls threatens retention and will drive out the military families we need. And second, making sure that service members receive the benefits they deserve and are protected against predatory companies. To thank service members for the sacrifices they make, Congress has created programs like the Public Service Loan Forgiveness and Tuition Assistance Program, making it easier for service members to get the education that they want and that they need. I look forward to discussing how we can improve those programs in a bipartisan fashion. I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Senator Warren. Now we'll have opening statements from each of our witnesses. General, you'd like to start?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to address you today. The Army stands ready to defend our nation. Our Army can provide combat power anywhere in the world to protect American and allied interests. Our Army is lethal, cohesive, and ready. We are proud, but we are not satisfied. The Army is transforming its organizations and delivering technology to keep up with the evolving battlefield. Continually transforming means the Army is more adaptable, flexible, and lethal. The Army is moving forward under four focus areas that directly address an increasingly volatile world. These pillars are warfighting, ready combat formations, continuous transformation, and strengthening the profession. Within these four pillars, our team of professionals will execute all human resource actions that directly support our most important asset, our people. Under this framework, the goal is to improve, streamline, and renovate how we do things in the HR community to be faster and more efficient. Our readiness for large-scale combat operations depends on it. As an example, we will focus on the overhaul and revamping of our retention processes. This will ensure quality over quantity and provide leaders the right skills for our formations. Next, we will modernize our centralized promotion board system and leverage artificial intelligence in an ethical and responsible way to make sure we update the systems. Additionally, we will work with this Congress to overhaul the Officer Professional Management System to make it relevant to the current operational environment and the future. The Army remains committed to quality of life initiatives to ensure our soldiers remain focused on their missions. Barracks renovations and modernization efforts are correcting outdated housing. Dining facilities are being updated to provide more flexible and nutrition options. The Holistic Health and Fitness program, or H2F, embeds experts directly into our units to ensure peak performance. Recruiting will remain a priority. The Army exceeded its FY24 goal with over 55,000 new soldiers and is targeting 61,000 in this FY and are currently on glide path to surpass without lowering standards. With congressional support, we will keep the Army on a sustainable strategic path as we transform for the future. We will deliver ready combat formations with advanced capabilities to defend our nation and its interests. As we celebrate our 250th anniversary this year, I thank you for your unwavering support of our talented soldiers, civilians, professionals, and their families.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Admiral.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished subcommittee members, thank you for the opportunity to testify today, representing the incredible sailors and families of our United States Navy. Supporting me today is my senior enlisted advisor, Fleet Master Chief Delbert Terrell, who provides wise counsel on all issues, whether officer, enlisted, or civilian. It is those sailors and civilians that we both serve who are on duty around the clock and around the globe, a lethal fighting force working to deter aggression, particularly in the Red Sea, Eastern Mediterranean, and Western Pacific. Continuing Resolution '25 funds a thorough, strategy-driven Navy budget that is focused on delivering resources to ensure our naval forces remain ready, resilient, and agile to execute national tasking and preserve peace through strength. I thank you for your support within CR '25 that helps Navy's recruiting and retention efforts, as well as our quality of service initiatives writ large. They are making a difference, and I encourage continued congressional support in these areas for fiscal year '26 and beyond. Navy recruiters had a historic 2024, contracting more sailors than in any given year since 2003. We exceeded our increased contracting goal by implementing real-time, data-informed processes, capitalizing on the Future Sailor Prep Course, streamlining medical waiver reviews, increasing the quality and number of recruiters, and identifying and removing barriers to recruiter productivity. As a result, we are on pace to exceed our fiscal year '25 recruiting goal of 40,600 future sailors. I remain focused on ensuring our schoolhouse supply chain is ready to receive this influx of motivated students, and we are ensuring every future sailor receives the training they need to be ready on day one in a fiscally responsible, efficient, and effective manner. Additionally, we continue to exceed retention forecasts across all zones, in part due to consistent congressional support in funding sailors' special incentive pays and bonuses. Sea duty manning is an essential element of our operational readiness, and I know our chronic shortfalls impact job satisfaction and retention. We are driving barrier removal across the enterprise, and we can now predict a steady drop in gaps at sea over the next 18 months. My goal remains achieving 100% rating fill by 2027. Our sailors, civilians, and their families are the backbone of our Navy. It is our duty to take care of them by delivering the highest qualities— excuse me, highest standards of quality of service. We must build great people, great leaders, and great teams to innovate, solve hard problems, and dominate in combat. Our sailors stand ready as a lethal fighting force to deter or confront any adversary. You and every American can be proud of your Navy and this team. This is my last scheduled hearing in front of this body as I retire later this summer. It's been a privilege to serve in this role over the last three years, and I sincerely thank all the members of this subcommittee and the staff for your continued support. Thank you.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Admiral. General?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, I am honored to appear before you and tell the Marine Corps story through the personnel lens. The Marine Corps approaches the challenges of this critical manpower portfolio with a singular focus, and that is delivering combat-credible, lethal forces to operational units wherever they are needed. Every decision we make, whether that's through recruiting, retention, assignment, or policies, are evaluated through the lens of lethality. Today, your Marine Corps has over 30,000 Marines operationally deployed in over 34, 35 countries across the globe. These Marines are supporting our nation's campaigning efforts, underpin deterrence under the banner of peace through strength, and ready to respond when called upon. Sustaining this high state of warfighting readiness depends entirely on our ability to recruit and retain those lethal warriors. I am pleased to report that we continue to win on the recruiting front, and we will make mission again this year. We've achieved these recruiting goals while exceeding all DOD quality standards, without lowering and without ever compromising those standards that define us, the Marines. We believe our disciplined culture, our warfighting ethos, and high standards attracts the competitive, high-performing Americans that we need to fill our ranks with tough, smart, and gritty Marines. The retention of our Marines has also reached historic heights. This year, we've exceeded last year's unprecedented numbers, and just this last week, we surpassed 100% of the retention goals that we need, and we're not stopping. This marks the highest number and highest quality we've retained of Marines in decades and proves that warriors that earn the title Marine want to stay Marine and are proud to protect and defend the nation that we love. I'd also like to thank you, each of you on this subcommittee, for your ongoing support in providing each of the services with the tools that make these successes possible. Financial incentives, quality of life initiatives, school access, family support programs, and many, many more make a difference when a young American decides to become a Marine or stay a Marine. Now, I'm going to go a little bit step further with a request. If you have sons or daughters, or family members or friends that you think have what it takes to be a Marine, I know a general that can make that happen, and I'll leave a bunch of business cards out here after testimony so we can get in contact with me. But after all this success talk, I'd be remiss if I didn't stress this. We can't stop here. The success each service is going to highlight today, which has been fantastic, it remains fragile. The force depends not only on resources, but on something more enduring, and that's the value of military service. Our nation must reawaken a sense of purpose around serving, around being part of something bigger than self, and I ask you to help us restore the value and prestige of service in the eyes of our fellow citizens. And in closing, I'll ask that we all continue to commit to attack each key decision through the lens of lethality and warfighting excellence. Our Marines and our nation are counting on it. I look forward to your questions today. Semper Fidelis.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, General. General Miller.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished members of this subcommittee, I am honored to have the opportunity to appear before you with my fellow service personnel colleagues. The Department of the Air Force is committed to ensuring we are postured to deter and, if necessary, prevail against our sophisticated peer competitors, to include China and Russia. As the department looks to the future, readiness continues to be the foundation of our mission success. Readiness can be assessed through multiple lenses. However, our most significant competitive advantage is our people, our Airmen. We exist to fly, fight, and win, none of which is possible without the dedication and talent of the men and women who volunteer to serve. This year, we continue to focus on recruiting, developing, and retaining skilled and innovative individuals, ensuring they are equipped with essential operational skills and resources. Fiscal year 2024 saw improvements in recruiting due to an increase in recruiter manning, changes to training processes, and an increase in delayed entry program to its highest level in 10 years. The department is also improving pilot retention through increased accessions and training throughput capacity using monetary and non-monetary authorities granted by Congress. As readiness is directly linked to the welfare of our Airmen and their families, we continue to target barriers to well-being and overall force readiness in areas including economic security, access to quality child care, sexual assault and sexual harassment prevention, and suicide prevention. Efforts to reduce financial stress include training through programs such as the Personal Financial Readiness Program and direct financial assistance authorized by the fiscal year 2025 National Defense Authorization Act. We also remain committed to improving access to available, affordable, and quality child care programs. To bolster sexual assault and sexual harassment response and prevention, we have implemented policies to establish standards for care providers to ensure accountability, and facilitate inter-office collaboration. Furthermore, the department has codified the DOD suicide response system and implemented a postvention command support team. This team delivers leader-focused training designed to implement rapid response activities following a suicide event to minimize suicide contagion, facilitate individual and unit cohesion, and reduce negative impacts of force readiness. Talent management remains one of the cornerstones of our efforts to build and develop the force we need. Our talent management philosophy is based on high standards, accountability, and meritocracy. Each Airman record is evaluated on its own merits, specifically in terms of job performance, demonstrated skills, and warfighting readiness. To improve readiness, the department is focused on developing specialized skills to solve operational and strategic challenges. As the Department of the Air Force looks to the future to preserve our supremacy against adversaries, I assure you the Air Force leadership is wholly focused on maximizing readiness and lethality while caring for our force. Thank you for your continued partnership and your advocacy of the United States Air Force. I look forward to your questions.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, General. Ms. Kelley.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to represent the United States Space Force here today, and thank you for your opening remarks about the importance of people. This subcommittee, like no other, is a huge supporter of the talent that we have in the Space Force. Our mission is clear: to secure our nation's interests in, from, and to space. And strategic competition in space represents a serious threat to our national security and to our global leadership presence. The Space Force remains focused on developing guardians with the foundational skills and experience necessary in this highly technical, contested, and lethal 21st century world that we find ourselves in. This past year, the Space Force launched its inaugural officer training course. This is a rigorous 12-month course covering space operations, intelligence, cyber, and acquisition designed to develop the most credible guardians possible. Simultaneously, we evaluated our enlisted training and development in our cyber and intelligence as applied to the space domain. And for our civilians, we launched an Optimization for Space course to enhance the civilian expertise in this continuing evolving domain. Building the force America needs requires the continued growth and investment in all our space professionals and all our guardians. As our uniformed service grows, we are ensuring the civilian workforce is aligned to critical functions and in direct support of the warfighter mission and the support the Guardians give to the joint fight. I'm proud to share that the Space Force has exceeded its fiscal goal in '24 for enlisted recruiting, and we are on track in '25 to exceed as well. We are also at a retention rate of 96% across our force, both officer and enlisted. Currently, we have more than 440 recruits awaiting entry into the Space Force, which will allow us a further pipeline for next year as well. To ensure the long-term pipeline of guardians, we've established a recruiting squadron, which is the first time for the Space Force to have a guardian recruiting other potential guardians. And so we are excited about what this new model can bring. We're leveraging new marketing platforms as well because we're cognizant of the talent that we seek for the Space Force, leveraging technology and ways to meet these potential guardians where they're at, and we are excited about a new Space Force planetarium show that will be debuting around the country on National Space Day next month. The Space Force is committed to fostering support for guardians and their families as well. As we recognize things like childcare are one of the primary resources crucial for quality of life and readiness that allow our guardians to focus on the 24/7 operational support that much of our force provides on a day-to-day basis to the joint fight. We've made significant progress in consolidating space expertise across the Department of Defense. We've opened our first application window for space professionals in the reserves to transition over to the Space Force in a full-time capacity. We have far outweighed our ability and interest, and we continue to bring more into the Space Force over the next subsequent years. The flexible service options that this committee provided us in the Personnel Management Act enable Guardians to move between full and part-time work roles in a much more seamless way and aligned to the service mission needs. We are also leveraging the authorities you gave us to incentivize and compensate our best and brightest, our STEM-focused talent, and those guardians who represent this nation. Chairman Tuberville, Ranking Member Warren, and all distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank you again for the opportunity to represent our Space Force guardians with you today. As the space domain becomes increasingly contested, no longer a benign environment, we remain steadfast in our mission to secure our nation's interests, and I very much look forward to your questions here today.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Miss Kelley. Thank you, all of you.

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Uh,

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

and y'all have very important jobs, as we all know, and we all know the consequences, you know, if you do great or don't. So thank you for your efforts. I once was a recruiter in my former job. I know how how hard that is, and pretty much the same level and the same age group. And it's a thrill a minute, you know, when recruiting 18-, 19-, 20-year-old young men and women. So we'll go through a few questions here. General Eifler, you know, this week my office heard from a constituent that the Army was planning to close its Command and General Staff College satellite campus at Redstone Arsenal, my state of Huntsville—Huntsville, Alabama. When when was this decision made, and can you share with the committee the reasoning behind this closure?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Chairman, there was no decision. This is all pre-decisional. I know they're doing some analysis out there based on some decisions for the delayed retirement program, but no such decision has been made at this

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. Secretary Hegseth recently ordered a 60-day review of military combat arms standards to ensure that everyone who filled these roles was held to the same equal standard. Each one of you—and we'll start with the general on the left here—can each of you, if you have affected jobs, discuss your service's approach to meeting this deadline and creating sex-neutral standards based solely on the operational demands of the occupation and not an artificial desire to achieve a certain representation number? Can each of you talk about these and these requirements? General, we'll start with you.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Chairman. Specifically, we were looking into this because of the NDAA last year that directed that close combat units, specifically in MOSs or specialties like infantry, armor, Special Forces, engineers, have a higher standard for close combat activities. So we have already been working on that, and we'll continue to work on that here soon. That is due out by June to have in place according to this committee and this Congress. What the SecDef has asked us also to look at is having one standard that is regardless of sex for those close combat units. So we're taking our analysis and looking at all of that to make sure that we are focused on lethality and focused on what we require for combat.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Admiral?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question. Navy's taking a similar approach as my Army colleague here. We've done some nascent work with our SEALs and EOD folks, also with some of our Civil Engineer Corps folks. We have a much smaller cadre given we're not necessarily ground-focused, but for those communities that are, we're working with Manpower and Reserve Affairs, we're developing those standards, but the work to date is nascent sir.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

General?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator Tuberville, thanks for asking this question. For Marines, we carry high standards and we don't apologize for it. We are very proud of our high standards. Every Marine conducts a combat fitness test and a physical fitness test. These combat fitness tests, this is where you carry a Marine over your shoulder through an agility test for 50 m. You throw a grenade, a dummy grenade, you carry ammo cans, and we're pretty proud of that. Every Marine fires an automatic weapon and qualifies not just from 100 yd, from 500 yd, five football fields, every Marine. In addition, for our combat arms Marines, all Marines have the same standards, so things such as wearing your full combat heavy equipment with your service weapon and going on a forced march for 20 mi under a certain time, all Marines. Another instance would be taking a Mk 19, very heavy weapon grenade launcher weapon system, putting that over your head, doesn't matter, male, female, all Marines. Taking an Olympic bar, 115 lb, put it over your head, all Marines. Taking an Olympic bar, 150 lb, up, holding deadlift, all Marines. So we're, again, very proud, thanks for asking that question, we hold our standards and we don't apologize for it. If you can't meet that standard, you're not in that MOS.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

General, can you carry somebody 50 yards on your shoulders?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

I can, yes sir.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Can you? I see your group behind you.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

If you come down to Quantico, sir, I'll carry you.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

General Miller.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, sir, we had already started doing this. We already have a Special Forces combat arms physical fitness test, and we just wrapped up the EOD. We've been working over the EOD for the last couple years, and they finalized it last week, actually, so the timing was perfect. We're getting ready to demonstrate it to the Chief, and at that point, we will be in compliance with the requirements.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Were there a lot of adjustments to it?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Not at all, none, and ours are also sex-neutral, they always have been.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Ms. Kelley.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, Chairman, on the Space Force side, I would add one unique dynamic for us. In addition to the review that we're in the midst of on combat relevant, the piece for the Space Force that we're really looking at is the cognitive abilities necessary on an ops floor for us. A lot of what our focus is for Guardians is to make sure that they're coming to work ready, rested, awake, focused on what they need to do. So in addition to the physical training and the fitness that they're working on, we're also exploring whether we can bring technology into that to help them see and be more aware of how ready they are for that direct fight that night.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. Senator Warren.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So every parent in this country understands how hard it is to find high-quality, affordable, available child care. And for our military families, the task can be just whole orders of magnitude harder. Often they have to navigate finding child care while they're on long deployments, abrupt relocations, and nonstandard work hours. And if military families can't find child care, they just may not be able to serve. I appreciate that at least two of you specifically mentioned child care when we talk about our service members and our our force readiness. DOD knows how important child care is, and that is why it runs the nation's largest employer-based child care system. It's high quality, it's affordable, but right now it is facing a huge shortage of child care workers, which means fewer child care slots and literally thousands of families on waitlists. In 2023, a DOD task force investigated the staffing shortages and confirmed that, in order to fix this problem, we need to increase child care workers' wages. So in last year's NDAA, we tasked DOD with redesigning the compensation model and starting to implement it by April 1st. But here we are a year later, and you haven't even finalized the redesign, much less begun implementation that was supposed to have started, what is it, 8 days ago? So for each witness, I want to ask: When can we expect to see the updated compensation model, and when can we expect to see implementation begin? Lieutenant General Eifler, let's start with you.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Thanks, Ranking Member.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

And I'll be writing these down.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah, thanks.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

So what's the date?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah, so I, I am not clear on that date because I know, I believe all the services are working with the Department of Defense on finalizing that. I do believe the CR has some impacts because of funding for it because—

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

no, I'm sorry, the CR has impacts on your implementation. It does not have an impact on your obligation to update your compensation model. You're supposed to do the modeling with the money you got.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

So when can I expect to see your updated model?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

I would have to follow up with you, Senator, because I am not clear on when that's going to be in place.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Okay. Well, I hope you're clear that you're already way past due.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes. Yes, Senator.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

All right. Vice Admiral Cheeseman, how about you? What's the date?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, similar answer. We're working with our OSD partners on when that date would be. And when I have a more informed answer, I'll make sure I get back with you, ma'am.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I'd like to have an answer that suggests that you guys are paying attention to this. We didn't put this in the law just for the fun of it. It wasn't advisory. It was for you to actually perform by a date certain. Lieutenant General Borgschulte.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator Warren, thank you very much for bringing this up. This is personal to me. I've got kids, I've got a spouse that has a career, and we have used our world-class child care at every duty station.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Good for you. So when?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

And so I will get back— we have increased the wages. I'll get back to you with a specific date, but we have over 40,000 kids in our child and youth programs. I mean, think about that. So that really— that's a retention effort, and that allows them to be free to go fight. And we're— I just appreciate you bringing that up. Okay. We do

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

have— you said many nice things. And the fact that you've actually moved toward increasing wages puts you a step ahead of the other 2 people to your right.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

We'll take that, Senator. I'll get you back an exact answer on that.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

But I got to have this done. Okay? Got to have this done. Lieutenant General Miller.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, ma'am. We've actually increased our wages. Our—

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

also good. How about your plan?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

We have a plan. We can— I can get it over to you. Oh, great. You

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

actually have it because we weren't able to find it. So I'm—

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

I will initiate or I will send over what we have done over the last year, which is— okay.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

It's an updated compensation model. That's what you're required to do under the law, okay? And then start implementing that model. So thank you. I hope that's right, Lieutenant General Miller. Ms. Kelley.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, we leverage the Air Force for our CDCs. So the model that General Miller is referencing would be applicable for Guard You're .

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

pointing back in other direction. Yours will be ready when his is ready?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

No, ma'am. General Miller?

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes,

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

we support her. Taking you to the other end, I apologize.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yep. No, the Air Force runs the child development centers that the Space Force Guardians leverage. So the adjusted salaries that the Air Force has, to include the fee assistance programs that are unbelievably helpful for our CDC workers, we've seen significant improvement.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

I just want to say on this, look, I understand that I am unpleasant about this and intend to be even more unpleasant if this doesn't get done. You all fully understand why this is so important, and so important any time. We don't say to our military families, here's this really hard job, and then not give them the support that they need to be able to carry it out. So I appreciate that you all seem to understand that. And my job is just to keep turning up the heat until we actually get this done and pay them better. Let me just bring out one more. Of course, this is all about making sure we have the staff needed to bring down military child care wait-lists. But of course, that's not going to happen if we're slashing the civilian workforce. Two weeks ago, a child development center in Utah closed because of cuts to its civilian staff. So let me just ask, do you agree that cutting child care by laying off civilian child care workers makes life harder for military families? Ms. Kelley, we'll start at your end this time.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, I absolutely agree that lack of childcare is a readiness issue for all the services and certainly for the Space Force.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, yes, it is a readiness issue.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you. General Borgschulte?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator Warren, I agree 100%, and we have not shut any down and don't plan to.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

I hope that's right, but it really is the reminder that these civilian cuts can have profound effects for our active duty service members. Vice Admiral Cheeseman?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question. For our childcare employees, they are funded out of non-appropriated funds. We have not let anybody go. In fact, our staffing levels have increased by 10% over the last year, and we've decreased the waitlist by about 1,000 spots.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

That is really terrific to hear. Thank you very much, and I appreciate your getting that on the record. General Eifler?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Ranking Member, totally concur. We have not shut down any, and we do believe it's a readiness issue because of that.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Good. I appreciate that. And now, in the name of the chair, I call on Ms. Hirono.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much. So, Senator Warren, you said that you can be very unpleasant about all this. It's called oversight.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Yes.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

And if we need to be unpleasant about it, so be it. So, General Eifler, did you say that this is the last time you're going to be testifying? Oh, thank you very much. Congratulations for for doing what you do, and my best wishes to you. So, let's face it. I am deeply concerned about Secretary Hegseth's personnel policy changes within the DOD and their impact on military personnel and overall readiness. You all acknowledge how important all these programs are, including childcare and everything else, on readiness, but he's making these cuts. The reinstatement of the transgender service ban and the rollback of diversity, equity, and inclusion programs raise serious questions about their effects on recruiting, retention, and unit cohesion. Furthermore, reports of abrupt dismissals of tenured and nonpartisan military officials, most recently General Hall, without clear justification call into question the institutional stability and apolitical foundation of our military. And these concerning developments require a thorough examination to ensure that DOD policy supports a diverse, inclusive, and effective fighting force. Even as there are all these attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion, the fact of the matter is that all of the services need to recruit from as wide a swath of people as possible. So these attacks on DEI, they are the wrong way to go. As I said, we should be recruiting from as wide a swath of people as possible. This is for Admiral Cheeseman. The Navy currently has over 20,000, 20,000 gaps in at-sea billets, and this shortfall has has serious readiness implications since it requires the Navy to pull sailors assigned to ships and submarines undergoing maintenance and assign them to units going on deployment. This cannibalization of personnel causes cascading and disruptive effects across the service. Question to you: does this gap concern you?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question. It keeps me awake at night.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it concerns

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

you. That's right. So our—

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

What are you doing about it?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Yes, ma'am. Our survey data tells us the single biggest concern among our sailors is burnout due to lack of manning. All right, so with that, we've done a number of things. First, we have completely merged our distribution and advancement systems into something we call billet-based advancement. That has shown great strides in this area. From E-5 to E-9, I essentially have no gaps at sea. In fact, I have a small surplus. All of our gaps at sea right now are among apprentices, and this speaks directly to the recruiting challenges we've had in the past. When we contracted over 40,000 sailors in 2024, it takes time to get those sailors through the pipeline. They will start arriving to ships in 2025. By the end of this fiscal year, we should have about 18,000 gaps. And by the end of 2026, we should be down to about 8,000 gaps. It takes about, on average, 9 months for a sailor to get through the pipeline. Those new sailors are coming.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

I hope you achieve those goals. And in fact, we probably will be following up with you on how you are doing because this is a huge gap and they're not going to— you're not going to eliminate the gaps by hoping that it will. I just want to ask you all, are women in the military important? Let's start with you,

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator. Yes, they are,

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator. Absolutely.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Yes, Senator. Absolutely.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Absolutely. Yes, ma'am.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

So when we talk about how important childcare is and all of those kinds of things, it makes me wonder whether, in fact, women are important in the military. And let me just point out a program that was created. It's called the Women's Initiative Team. All the services had Women's Initiative Teams. Apparently, they are all gone. Are they gone in all your services? Are you planning to bring them back? It's important, I would say, if women are important to the services. Do you still have WITs?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

I'm not aware that we do, Senator.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Pardon me?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

I'm not aware that we do, uh, Senator.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Did you ever have them?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

I believe we did.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Okay, what about you,

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, for the Navy, we folded our women's— we stood down the Women's Initiative Team, but we do have a Navy Culture Advisory Group that takes in all issues from all sailors.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator, I'm not aware of that particular initiative, but we incredibly value our females in the Marine Corps.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Well, I am told that all the services have them, so the fact that you're not aware, and when you say that women are important and this is one of the ways that we can recruit, retain them, and support them, I would suggest—in fact, I'm going to follow up and put language in the NDAA that requires all of you to reinstate this program so that if women in fact are important to the services, then your policies and practices will reflect. Do you want

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

to— we— all of our affinity clubs have been stood down temporarily.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I wonder why. I know why. That is a rhetorical question. Ms. Kelley?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator. We connected with the Air Force for this as well. They have been stood down, but I acknowledge your point.

Senator Mazie Hirono (D-HI)SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and they've been stood down because they're all supposedly under attack for being promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's like totally wrongheaded. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. Senator Warren.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So when Congress passed the GI Bill in 1944, a grateful nation promised to help service members with the cost of their education. This was a thank you for their sacrifices to our country. The promise is not charity. It is an ironclad commitment, and it is key to how we recruit and maintain a fighting force. Survey after survey has demonstrated how important this promise is both to recruitment and to retention, and I see you're nodding along with this. Too often, however, the federal government has failed to live up to our promise, not delivering on the student debt relief that service members are entitled to, or leaving them vulnerable to predatory lenders. For example, after student loan repayments restarted after the pandemic, the CFPB found that service member complaints about student loan servicers went up, thanks to hours-long hold times and other customer service failures with the companies that were managing their loans. Meanwhile, the VA has warned about the rise of scams where predatory schools will promise, quote, "immediate student debt cancellation" that doesn't really exist in order to lure veterans into enrolling. So again, I'd like to go down the line, if we can, with our witnesses for this question. Just yes or no, does it undermine our ability to recruit and retain personnel when we let bad actors scam our service members out of the educational benefits that they have earned and been promised by the United States government? Lieutenant General Eifler, if I could start with you.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Ranking Member.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

And Vice Admiral Cheeseman.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, yes, ma'am, absolutely.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Lieutenant General Borgschulte.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Yes, ma'am, absolutely. No, uh, our Marines should not be scammed.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And Lieutenant General Miller? Yes,

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

ma'am.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

And Ms. Kelley?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, ma'am, absolutely.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Well, that is the reason that I have proposed language for this year's NDAA to protect service members from predatory actors. This committee has worked in a bipartisan fashion before to ensure that service members get the educational benefits that they have earned. Under a bipartisan law signed by President George W. Bush back in 2007, the federal government will cancel the student loans of people who work in public service and faithfully pay their loans for at least a decade as a way to honor their public service. And last year, Senators Cortez Masto and Senator Moran led a successful effort to require DOD and the Education Department to perform a data match so that all eligible service members automatically receive the Public Service Loan Forgiveness that the law says that they have earned. So, once again, I want to go down the line with our witnesses. Is it important that DOD do everything it can to deliver debt cancellation under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program to all eligible service members, as statutorily required by Congress? Lieutenant General Eifler?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Ranking Member.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Vice Admiral Cheeseman?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Yes, ma'am.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Lieutenant General Borgschulte?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Yes, ma'am.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Lieutenant General Miller?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, Senator Warren.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

And Ms. Kelley?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, ma'am, absolutely.

Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)SPEAKER_03

Okay, good. We're in a good place. Once again, though, this is work that remains unfinished. So I have submitted an NDAA proposal for this year requiring DOD to provide quarterly updates until the Public Service Loan Forgiveness data match is implemented, and also requiring the GAO to analyze the challenges that service members face with student loan debt repayment. I have also submitted a proposal to require DOD implement the same risk-based surveys that the VA is already statutorily required to use to monitor fraud and waste and abuse at schools that receive more than $600 million in service member tuition assistance each year. These are programs that matter to our service members, and I appreciate having all of you as allies to make sure that our service members get what the American people promised them. So thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me do this.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Senator Warren. Um, let's talk about healthcare real quick. The demanding nature of military service, long deployments, and challenges of balancing military and family life can lead to a burnout and turnover among military medical professionals. Additionally, the potential for more lucrative opportunities in the civilian sector can make it harder for the military to retain these highly specialized medical professionals. Last year's NDAA included a provision to increase the authorized number of nurse officers the services could recommend for promotion. So one at a time, what are you doing to recruit and retain military medical personnel specifically, and what can we do in help assisting and retaining medical personnel? General?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I think this, as you articulated pretty good, it's a competition that we have with our local communities across the service, across all services. Having been recently served in Alaska, we're in competition with the hospitals in the area for healthcare professionals, the whole gamut. And so we appreciate the support with being able to provide the necessary bonuses and pay grade equal to what's out there in the commercial sector to keep them in. I think one of our biggest number one issues is job satisfaction. Our providers want to be doing the things that they were trained to do. They want to do more service on post, so every time if we channel folks off post to other care, it limits their experience and their satisfaction. So they want to do the surgeries. They want to do the medical care. So the more we can focus them on that, the better off that they are with their satisfaction, and that's one of the things we're working on to make sure that all the medical professions are getting to do the things and getting the service and the experience in the field that they want to be doing.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Are you seeing a lot of interest? In medical and recruiting?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

We are. It's just, it's, it's a competition, and it's something that we've got to be creative. We can't rest. We got to keep the gas pedal down. We can't rest on our laurels. We always are looking at ways to bring them in, uh, into the service of our nation. So we're actively doing that across our recruiting commands.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Admiral.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question. Well, first, thanks for the authority for the Nurse Corps. Navy intends to use that to our advantage. For the medical community writ large in the Navy, it's similar to the enlisted recruiting problem we have. And our issues are because of stress and burnout on the force. So we have doubled down on our medical recruiting. We have changed the process in which way we do that. We've outsourced some of that to medical professionals to do the recruiting for us. And as a result, we've seen a tenfold increase to date in the number of folks interested in joining the Navy. So nascent efforts still, but trending in the right direction. We're gonna be much better this year than we have been in the past, sir.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. General?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Sir, in the Department of the Navy, the Marines don't have any medical personnel, so we rely on my good friend here, Vice Admiral Cheeseman, to support us. They do a very fine job of it, but I think it goes deeper than that. That's in the military treatment facilities, but also out in town. So, some of those bases and stations, and being an expeditionary force when we're out in areas where they don't have access to a military treatment facility, and sometimes going out through TRICARE out in town can take 30 days plus, especially with mental health physicians, very difficult. So again, thanks for the help with the Department of the Navy. We certainly support them, and I would ask for anything that you can do to help with the out-in-town physicians.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

General Miller?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, sir, we also have the same struggles of trying to get our medical professionals on board. I will say that DHA has been challenging as well, just to work with them. General DeGoes, our SG, has been doing everything he can to get out there and recruit the medical specialties. We're trying to give them the credit so we can bring them on at higher grades than they normally would. Additionally, we're looking in the mental health perspective of doing online, so one provider can do multiple areas, so they don't actually have to physically be there, but they can do online mental health. So it is a struggle. We're trying everything that we can to get our force back up because we've got to have them.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Ms. Kelley.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, Chairman. Much like the Marines, we rely on the Air Force for medical support. So from a Guardian perspective, a Guardian is going to an MTF that the Air Force is running underneath the auspices of Defense Health. I would agree that the recruiting is a challenge. I would also agree that the way that the Air Force is attempting to tackle this and the changes that they're making in that additional pay structure are going to be very pivotal for the Guardian as well.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

This question, if anybody can answer, if you want. There's been discussion over the past few years about unnecessary and burdensome barriers to entry for DOD nurses, including a one-year prior experience required barrier. Can any of you speak to these barriers, and are they hurting or helping recruiting? Have any of you seen any of that? Anybody? Anybody want to throw anything in?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Sir, for the Navy, I have not seen that or am familiar with that, so I'll take that for the record and get you a more fulsome answer.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Okay, thank you. Senator Scott.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

First off, thanks each of you for your hard work. I don't think what you do is easy. So we've had a tough time, other than the Marines, of hitting our recruitment numbers, right, for quite a few years. So should anybody be held accountable? And if so, have they been held accountable for not meeting our recruiting goals?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

I'll start, sir. So our recruiting numbers in the Air Force have gone up. We're actually exceeding where we thought we would be. Some of it, the last two, three years, it was a little more difficult based COVID, I think, was one of the factors. The other thing is just the propensity to serve across our nation was down. And so we have put every effort we can into increasing our recruits, and we have exceeded our goals. We actually were planning to exceed it by about 3,000 this year, and we'll see if we have enough MILPERS to cover that.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

But they didn't, but y'all didn't meet the goals.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, sir, we did this year.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Yeah, but prior years.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

No, sir, we did not. And so we looked at what was—we had our own barriers internal to the Air Force. And so we removed those barriers. One of them, you know, we had very strict, for example, tattoo policies, and so we removed some of those because it was a barrier for entrance from some of the population of our nation, so that increased it. The other thing that we did was we noted that internally to the Air Force, you had to have a driver's license in order to enter our Air Force. We removed that. And then we do, if it's required for your position, we will work on getting the driver's license. So all of the internal barriers we removed, and we have since seen a larger population from which we can recruit. Additionally, we did not lower our standards at all. We have maintained our standards, DOD standards.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

But the individuals that were responsible for recruiting before you started making your numbers, should they have been held accountable or not, or is it something that was completely outside your control?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

It's not— I don't think it's in my control, but I think that they were held accountable in the fact that they were given specific goals. We used to do goals every quarter, and now we do them monthly, and so our recruiter, who's a 1-star general, reports to a 4-star, so I think the accountability was there from that aspect, sir.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

But nothing happened to anybody for not meeting their goals? They were promoted just like anybody

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

else. Well, the same promotion— I mean, he's been a 1-star the whole time, so he hasn't yet been promoted.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

How's the Navy? How about the Navy?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Sir, I'll tell you that— sir, thanks for the question, and also thanks for the opportunity yesterday to speak with you in your

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

office. And you're meeting your goals,

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Sir, we are far exceeding our goals, absolutely, in 2025. I anticipate sending 44,000 future sailors to boot camp, probably just under that number. Our goal was 40,600, so we're well above it. I think inside of our enterprise, inside the MyNavy HR enterprise, we took a really hard look about who was tasked to do what. We upgraded the position of the Navy Recruiting Commander from a one-star to a two-star, and with that came a recruiting operations center, came increased data analytics, a review of medical waiver processes came. We understand the data behind recruiting. To be candid, sir, I think we had to learn how to recruit coming out of COVID, and I won't speak for my fellow service members here, but that's how it was for the Navy. I think prior to COVID, we were very good at processing the people who walked in the recruiting stations. Coming out of COVID with a decrease in propensity that General Miller mentioned, we really had to learn how to recruit. We are up on step now and we're running on all cylinders, sir.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

How about the Army?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah, thanks, Senator. As you know, probably a couple years ago we completely revamped it. I think this was an Army entirety fault. I wouldn't say an individual, but I would say the Army was at fault. We were sleeping at the wheel for years on recruiting, resting on our laurels, and we put General Davis and a and a team of folks in there to revamp and relook how we did recruiting systemically from the top to the bottom. Over the last 12 to 18 months have been putting these in place, and we're seeing now the fruition. We saw that last year was a good year. This year is a great year. We are exceeding. We're over 50,000 recruits out of the 61,000 that we were shooting for this year, just 6 months in. So we're having, as I call it, catastrophic success with this, with how we're doing now.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

But the, the ones in charge, um, when we weren't successful, no, nothing's happened to them. They were, they were promoted just like normal. Like, I think that's true.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

No, they weren't, Senator. Okay.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

All right. Okay. So what's the slogan for the Marines?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator Scott, good to see you. We talked a bit about this. We put our best Marines into recruiting, even if they want to

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

do you have a slogan?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

A slogan?

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you have a

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

slogan? The Few, the Proud. We have a lot of slogans, sir, if that's the one you're after. We don't promise you a rose garden. Many different. We'll stop there.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

I remember that one. So that was the Navy. And Army, do you have— you guys have one?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah, this will defend, Senator.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Okay and how about the Navy?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Sir, Forged by the Sea.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Air Force,

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

fly, fight, and win. Aim high.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Space Force,

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Semper Supra, always above.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

And when you when, so do you think that, do you think that when people come in, they, they know what your mission is? When you're recruiting, do they know what your mission is? And I think, I think we we've all heard for years the Marine slogan, and we've all heard for years the Army slogan, but I don't know, do you think we've heard the others? And do you think that that's a reason why we've had a hard time, is people not sure not sure what we're doing? Anybody?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, I'll speak to it from the Navy component. We've been with the Forged by the Sea marketing campaign for a little bit of time. It resonates well with younger folks. The average age of our recruit is 22, not necessarily 18 like some of the others are. So they're a little older. It resonates. That slogan, that culture manifests through boot camp, through 'A' schools now and into the fleet. So I think it's nesting pretty well.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, I'll offer, from the Space Force perspective, being just over 5 years old, we took a concerted effort to market what a Guardian is and, more importantly, what they do, specifically for the joint fight. So, I acknowledge your point. It's one of the focuses that we have right now. We've actually built a planetarium show that we're debuting in a month at planetariums around the nation to get after exactly your point, which is does the average American know what the Space Force is and that they can join it as its newest service?

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

You think they do?

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Our data right now shows us that we have a brand awareness problem. Absolutely.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

That's what I would say in Florida.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Yes, yes, Space Force for sure, sir.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So, so have, um So, the Marines continue to be successful. Was there, was after after the the problems that we had, was did the other branches, did they follow what the Marines were doing? Did you guys look at what the Marines were doing? It's nice to be the one that never had a problem.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

I

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

always want to be number one. Absolutely. You know, I always want to be the one that nobody ever question my numbers.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, from a Navy perspective, we did take a little bit of a look at what the Marines had done. We had already been involved in increasing the quality of our recruiters. In talking to my good friend here, that manifests in what they're doing. So, the communities that provide our officer recruiters have increased the quality of those commanding officers that go to Recruiting Command, the commodores that oversee them, and we do provide a large amount of incentives for our junior, for our enlisted sailors to head out to recruiting, and the quality there is increasing as well.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Senator, from the Air Force perspective, we absolutely did look at the Marines and their recruiting, and the way that they attack it and that they do put their best and brightest on there. So we did modify that over the last year when we added additional 400-plus recruiters and that you had to be selected to be there as opposed to just throw your name in the hat because you thought it would be fun to do. So yes, sir, we did do that.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, if I may, I would be remiss if I did not go on the record and note that the Space Force has made its recruiting numbers for the last five years. Albeit small, we are absolutely focused on finding the talent where it is and leveraging some technical ways to connect directly with those potential Guardians.

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Senator, the Army took into consideration even further professionalizing the recruiting force, so creating a new MOS, a new warrant officer that, taking some things from industry, training with industry and how they do that, how do they relate to get a little bit better, and selecting. Not everybody is a good recruiter. Some people are better than others, and we're just making sure that we're putting the right people in the right places to access the people that we're trying to bring in.

Senator Rick Scott (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Thank you for what you do. Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thanks, Senator Scott. Senator Duckworth.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for keeping the hearing open so that I can make it here. I appreciate it. Each of our services claims to build the best and most capable leaders within the world's greatest fighting force, capable of thinking critically, navigating the fog of war, and leading diverse teams in times of uncertainty. But how can the department train leaders to make decisions for themselves if it is actively banning books from service academies and micromanaging their access to information? This administration's obsession with removing diversity within the force has now expanded into attacking diversity of thought. Censorship does not produce stronger leaders; it produces brittle ones. Suppressing ideas is not a sign of might; it is an expression of fear, and if we allow fear to drive policy, we fail not only our cadets and service members seeking to develop themselves as leaders, but also the American people who count on them to lead with wisdom and critical thinking. For each witness, do you believe our future commanders will be fully prepared to navigate the complexity of tomorrow's warfighting environment if we continue to micromanage their exposure to the world and different perspectives? Should we be limiting their perspectives and banning books in our academies? Would that make them better leaders?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Oh, no, Senator.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you,

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, I'm generally familiar with the issue you're talking about, but I've not seen specifically the issues at the Naval Academy, nor have I talked to Admiral Davis about that. What I can tell you, I agree with you. I believe the Naval Academy should have everything they need to create future naval officers. Within my domain, I am certain that we have everything we need to make sure every sailor is qualified to do their job.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Yes, ma'am. Nice to see you. I'm a proud graduate of one of those service academies, and I could

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

never make it in. It's okay, I'm an ROTC guy.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Barely. But it matters to us in the sense we take 25% of that class, of that Naval Academy class that comes into the Marine Corps, and we get eye-watering talent. And so just inspiring, attracting our top young Americans to attend that school is important to us, and I just wanted to put a plug for how important that school is, how much it means to us.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. General Miller?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, ma'am, I would concur. I don't know exactly what they're doing at USAFA as far as the libraries and going through the curriculum, but I do know that we have the best airmen, and a large portion of them come from the academy, and I think that we need to make sure that we continue to draw, similar to the Marines and Navy, the best individuals from the United States.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

But they need to be exposed to all elements of thought, and we should not be banning books in our training of our service members.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

I think they should definitely be— they should have all trains of thought. Yes, ma'am.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Miss Kelley.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Ma'am, I agree with your point. Absolutely.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. I do think that we owe service members protection from moral injury by empowering them with the training to operate in complex wartime environments with life-or-death decisions for their brothers and sisters in arms. As well as civilians who find themselves caught in the middle. But I heard some concerning things from General Counsel nominee— from the General Counsel nominee yesterday regarding this administration's commitment to the law of armed conflict. Will each of you commit to ensuring that service members receive the appropriate training and education on the law of armed conflict?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yes, Senator.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you,

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator. Yes, ma'am. Senator, this is key to our warfighting effectiveness. Absolutely.

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, ma'am. Agree, ma'am.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

That is why we're the greatest fighting force on the face of the Earth. We set the standards for the rest of the world. And I'd like now to pivot to the Indo-Pacific, and I'd like to shift your attention specifically to the current makeup of our active, reserve, and Guard forces and whether our forces are prepared for the reality of fighting and sustaining large-scale conflict in the Indo-Pacific region. For each of you, do you believe your service currently has the force structure and personnel necessary to meet the demands of such a fight in the Indo-Pacific? And if not, given our current personnel projections and plans, are you confident your service will be prepared to execute large-scale mobilization to and sustain power projection across contested domains? And what can this committee do to ensure you're fully supported? Because I will tell you, it is a bipartisan issue. We have talked about this in a bipartisan way, and I want to make sure you have the ability— I think probably the Army and the Marines will be most on this, Navy obviously as well, but can we sustain the fight where we are right now, and what kind of support do you need?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Thanks, Senator. Yes, yes, we can, but I'm not satisfied. I don't think we're satisfied that we need to continue to transform to prepare for that even more. And as you know firsthand, the more readiness, the better we're going to be. We have to transform not just our modernization, our force, but how we do things in large-scale combat operations. So when our chief says, hey, transformation in contact or continuous transformation, that's what we're doing. We can't rest on our laurels. We can't say, hey, we won the last war, we're good. We have to continually look and adapt, because as we see in the battlefields across the globe, things are changing faster than our budget cycle and faster than our, you know, how we can acquire equipment through acquisition. So we have to be faster. So we can't say, Hey, we're ready, we're good, stop. No, we actually need to keep getting more ready, keep adapting, and I think your support absolutely with your oversight, but also with the proper appropriations and flexible funding so that when something changes like we're talking about with UAS, counter-UAS, and that technology that is changing so frequently inside that budget cycle, we've got to be able to adjust and not get consumed by buying this one thing that was good for that time and is no longer— and it's obsolete. So that's what I would say we need help with.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question. I believe in our operators. I'm certain we'll get the mission done. That being said, the Navy is on a journey. One of our lines of effort is to make sure that we're very much aligned within our maritime operations centers. We want to fight from those operations centers in the future. There's a lot of things going on here with hardware, software, people. From my portfolio, I'm sure I'll need more people in those specific skill sets when it comes to the IW community, the cryptologic community, the intel community, the space community. So we're on a growth profile in in those areas. Additionally, I know working closely with the Chief of Navy Reserve, Admiral Lacore, they are organized around the fight from the MOC concept. So the training that they do is so they're able to fight, fall in on those MOCs when when trouble is brewing, so they can support the fight as well. So we're modernizing the entire approach toward the fight from the MOC, and we just look forward to continued working with this community to get that done.

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator, thanks very much. The INDOPACOM theater is one of the most challenging theaters. In my last job before this role, commanding aviators, the distances at which we may need to fight in that theater makes it very difficult with the geographical dispersion. As you know, 6 years ago we started down this path with General Berger, now General Smith, on Force Design. Force Design was clearly meant to grow the force to the right type of Marine, right skillset, divest to invest. Now we're into the invest phase where we have the right numbers of Marines, capacity, and capability. We don't have the capacity we need, so we are on a plan—so to your question, I really appreciate that—is to grow our end strength, and we have a plan to get there, but it's quite frankly not fast enough. And so any help that you can provide us in funding really for that for that end strength, we would applaud. Thank you.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you, General

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Miller Yes, we too are shifting to the Pacific. The tyranny of distance is a challenge for us because we have tankers and where we're going to put them and how we're going to fight from there. So, we are doing large-scale exercises to make sure that we're ready. But we too need to increase our end strength, probably. And then we just have to have the right—we have to have the right kit forward, and so that's our challenge right now.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

If we're going up against the PRC, it's not going to be dominating the skies. We're going to have to fight our way in and fight our way out. Same with the surface warfare.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, I'd just like to add that from the space perspective, the INDOPACOM fight is absolutely enabled by the space capabilities that our warfighters need. So the ability for this service that is now 5 years old to continue to grow with the support of this committee is going to be very critical because the space-enabling warfighter has got to be part of what we deliver for the fight.

Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-IL)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. You've been incredibly generous, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Senator Duckworth. I just have one more question here before we finish, mainly for the NDAA, specifically talking about bonuses and special pays, retention. Obviously, y'all want to recruit new people, but we also have to recruit the people we already have in the service. So I'll start with General Miller. '24 NDAA, Congress authorized the Air Force to increase aviation retention bonuses up to $50,000 for pilots who agree to extend their contracts earlier than initially planned. Could you give us some kind of update on the status of of how these are working?

Lieutenant General Caroline M. MillerSPEAKER_08

Yes, Senator. Actually, they're working incredibly well. We are right now across our rated population, we are where we need to be with exception of the 11Fs, which are fighters. However, we have completely closed the gap based on a lot of it is the bonuses, the aviation bonuses. Additionally, we're looking at how the trainers— we're a little bit short on the trainers, so we're training by simulators too, and we're finding that we're closing that gap, and we expect that we will get there relatively quickly. But thank you very much for that NDAA, it's been very helpful.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Yeah, so we'll start down here, General, just what you think recruiting-wise in terms of bonuses for retention, or what do you think we could do in the future for just normal recruiting?

Lieutenant General Brian S. EiflerSPEAKER_05

Yeah, I think the support for the Future Soldier Prep Course has been great. That's tapped into another population that we haven't been able to access before, funding for that. And again, I hate to keep beating that horse on the funding funding for that those type of things that are not accounted for typically in the budget cycle. So I think that support, the bonuses, obviously that's huge for retention as well as recruiting and getting the people that we want to get into the service. I think if you continue to get that support and oversight for us, that'll be definitely helpful.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Admiral?

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

Senator, thanks for the question and allowing me the ability to highlight the importance of these special incentive pays, the bonuses and such. It's incredibly important to the retention game. We're doing very well on retention, but we're still short in our manpower accounts right now, so we're going to have to move some money around to make sure we meet our obligations to our sailors and we don't get to a point where we create an IOU situation. I would like to highlight, as we move into FY26, if we start the year with a continuing resolution in FY26, this will be problematic for that account. Right now, I appreciate the 10% pay raise for our junior enlisted sailors. That's funded for FY25 only. If we move into FY26 with a CR only, it will severely depress the manpower account, and I will have trouble paying those bonuses which are obligated to our sailors.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. General?

Lieutenant General Michael J. BorgschulteSPEAKER_06

Senator Tuberville, thanks very much for this question. The aviation bonuses are key. So are all the other bonuses, as Vice Admiral Cheeseman had mentioned, the selective retention bonuses. Some of our really exquisite, skilled senior enlisted and middle-grade enlisted that have cyber, signals intelligence, those type are really difficult to retain. But for the pilots, in a sense, the bonuses are—it's kind of a combined arms effect. The bonuses are important, but it's also climate, culture, and, and really just selling that, hey, flying a commercial aircraft is one thing, but flying a gray aircraft with a trigger is another thing. And we've got to have the bonuses. That's important, but it's climate and culture as well. Thanks for your support there.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Miss Kelley.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

Senator, I would add for the Space Force, the targeted bonuses are crucial. The space, cyber, and intel skill sets that is essentially the Guardian population that we have in the Space Force are are exquisite skills themselves, and much like the the other colleagues here today, the ability to retain and attract and hold that type of exquisite skill is critical. The targeted incentives help us do that.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

You just go to General Miller and say, Well, who's your best ones? I need your best ones, right? She does that, right? Yeah, I would too.

Katharine KelleySPEAKER_09

People want to join the Space Force, sir.

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Hey, thank you. I apologize for all the rigmarole here, but we got more hearings and people, and you noticed the lines outside. They're rather big. But thank you for what you do. You have a great responsibility. I don't think people really understand that the responsibility is, you know, you win with people. And obviously we got weapons and all that, but you got to have good people, and we thank you for what you do. Admiral Cheeseman, thank you for your service. I will tell you this, I did the same thing. I retired, and after a few weeks, my wife walked by the couch when I was drinking coffee one morning. She said, Hey, this has been my house for 40 years. Go get you a damn job. So, yeah, I'm

Vice Admiral Richard J. Cheeseman Jr.SPEAKER_01

hearing it already. Yes, sir. Oh

Chairman Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)SPEAKER_07

Yeah. But thanks for what you do, and we want to help as much as we can. That's one reason we had this today. A lot of people will watch this on video, a lot of our members. So if there's anything that we can do to help in your capacity, we want to help. We're in You know, all of you know we're in harm's way every day. And it We've got a lot of enemies out there, but the bigger and better we have our military, the less problems we'll have, because they don't want to mess with the United States of America, and we sure want them to know that. But you're the beginning of it. So thank you all and look forward to visiting with you and working with you many, many times. Again, Admiral, good luck. This hearing is adjourned. Thank you.