"Building a Talent Marketplace: How LERs Empower Workers and Expand Opportunity"

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

The Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Development will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. Without objections, the chair is authorized to call a recess at any time. In today's workforce, the hiring process is costly and extremely inefficient. This is especially the case with employers who are searching for workers with needed, specialized skills. For workers, attempting to navigate the job market is now more complicated than ever. Translating skills gained through education, training, and life experience into terms that employers understand is daunting. In this present era of innovation, which now includes the power of AI, we need smarter ways to connect job seekers' skills with employers' needs. Our economy is changing dramatically, and the way potential employees enter and engage with it must change too. Education preparation and workforce placement innovation through the use of learning and employment records is our future. With that, I'm going to start up a little video. Tax cut is one of the most important accomplishments of this Congress, and possibly for generations. It puts money back in the pockets of hardworking Americans and reminds us who we serve: families. But we cannot stop there. We must build on that momentum with a new data paradigm, a partnership of education, industry, and community designed to ensure that every learner and worker has the opportunity to succeed. For students and lifelong learners, this changes everything. Coursework, certifications, apprenticeships, and real-world experiences are all captured in secure digital records. Each skill and competency is verified and portable. No one is reduced to a line on a resume. Every accomplishment is seen, valued, and ready to open doors. For employers, it means clarity and confidence. Real-time labor market data reveals where talent is growing, what wages are trending, and which skills are in demand. Career pathways come into focus, making it easier to recruit, train, and retain the people who drive our economy. Learning and Employment Records, LERs, are the bridge. They connect the learner's proven abilities with the real needs of the workforce. Private, secure, and portable, LERs are powered by technology. Think of it as a transport interstate, an interoperable data highway where information from states, schools, industries, and even federal programs all flow together. The job market becomes more transparent, unlocking opportunities that were once out of reach. For decades, education and workforce data were fragmented and outdated. That was the old paradigm. The new data paradigm replaces it with a universally trusted, public-private system that connects learners, workers, and employers in real time. Opportunity now flows faster, more fairly, and more securely. In Utah, programs like Admit Utah capture this spirit of innovation. Think of an LER like a digital thumb drive you carry in your pocket, except it's captured safely in the cloud. Instead of photos or files, it stores every class you've taken, every certification you've earned, and every skill you've proven. When you apply for a job, you can instantly share that complete, verified record with an employer. No paperwork, no guesswork, just proof of what you can do, ready to plug directly into opportunity, opportunity that will grow with the potential integration of AI, allowing custom tailored services for individuals and real-time data for the labor market. The new data paradigm empowering every American to turn learning into earning. As we shift away from the college-for-all mentality toward a skills-first approach, short-term credentials, work-based learning, and apprenticeships are on the rise. Key legislations like the the enactment of the workforce Pell Grants and the Republicans' recent working families tax cuts will further the growth of these alternative pathways. With over 1 million unique credentials available, pathways options for learners can be very confusing. LERs are here to help solve that problem. We give learners clear insight into the skills needed for their first job and what's needed to continue advancement in their careers. LERs will bring greater clarity to both sides of the labor market, helping workers identify opportunities and employers find the right talent. LERs are the future, but they are not enough on their own. When paired with transparent credential registry and skills-based job descriptions, they can power a talent marketplace where abilities, not pedigrees, drives opportunity. As we modernize our connection of education and work through verifiable credentials, we can build a labor market that works for everyone, where workers have the agency, employees have confidence, and opportunities based on what you know and what you can do day one. With that, I'd like to yield to the ranking member.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for joining us today. Right now, many of my constituents are facing the reality that the economy is not working for them. Costs are rising, opportunities are disappearing. Since President Trump returned to office in January, job growth has slowed to a crawl, averaging just 70,000 per month compared to the 336,000 per month during the Biden administration. And to make matters worse, the Trump administration continues to fire thousands of public servants without cause, putting them out of work and unable to provide for themselves and their families. As unemployment rises, many job seekers are looking to advance their skills to open the door to a new kind of work. Today's hearing will focus on learning and employment records, or LERs, which the Brookings Institution defines as a comprehensive digital record of interconnected data, such as employment, earnings, skills, and credentials. LERs would provide each person in the workforce with a portfolio containing digital, verifiable records of their past work experience, accumulated skills, competencies, credentials, college transcripts, and other relevant information that they could send to employers instead of a traditional resume. LERs have the potential to make our economy more efficient, more equitable, and more productive. Employers are becoming overwhelmed with job applications containing limited information about the candidates' skills, all of which can be hard to verify. Far too many employers have fallen into the habit of requiring college degrees for jobs that do not necessarily require them, effectively shutting out talented and qualified individuals who have the skills, but not the diploma. But employers in our economy are losing out on the roughly 2/3 of talented, working-age Americans who do not hold a four-year degree. Requiring a college degree contributes to economic disparities, particularly for people who face systemic barriers to completing higher education, which were made by student loan caps included in the big, ugly bill. Some employers are increasingly evaluating job applicants based on experience and skills assessments rather than formal credentials or degrees. Many major companies, such as Google, Apple, IBM, have implemented skills-based hiring practices to bolster their workforces. These examples show that, when implemented well, learning and employment records have the potential to provide employers with skilled workers and provide job seekers with the tools to land a good-paying job to earn a living for themselves and their families. But while the potential is great, so are the challenges. First, our current job market lacks the level of technological infrastructure to support widespread adoption of these practices. And while efforts are underway in some states to digitize credentials and develop learning and employment records, these efforts are hampered by low awareness, lack of common data definitions and standards, lack of digital literacy and access, and data privacy concerns. Additionally, learning and employment records must be equitable and provide opportunities for all job seekers and employers. So, we must ensure that a shift to learning and employment records does not enable an infringement on worker rights, on increased discrimination, or widen achievement and income gaps. To avoid this, we should make sure that learning and employment records are wholly owned and controlled by workers themselves so that they are the ones making key decisions about what kind of information is inputted into their LERs, what information can be open to verification, and what information can or cannot be shared with outside entities. These protections will give workers control over important data privacy elements, such as demographic information, and ensure that unethical employers can't upload false or denigrating information about an employee, which could be done as a retaliatory tactic. Additionally, for LERs to be scaled up, we should make sure that the data definitions and protocols that allow LERs to be dynamically linked with other databases and workforce actors are open-sourced. While employers are leading the way on informing the public about the utility of LERs, we should not become too reliant on proprietary data systems where LERs are incapable of communicating to the wider workforce system. I am encouraged by the bipartisan enthusiasm for LERs today, Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to discussing how these new technologies can expand opportunities for all Americans and how we can best utilize them to connect skilled workers with promising careers. Mr. Chairman, I look forward to our discussion today. I thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Thank you very much. Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m., 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other materials noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I'll now turn to the introduction of our four distinguished witnesses. Our first witness is Scott Pulsipher, the president of Western Governors University in the great state of Utah. The second witness is Mr. Greg DiDonato, the Vice President of Business Development in EBSCO Information Services here in Washington, D.C. The third witness is Mr. Scott Cheney, the Chief Executive Officer for Credential Engine here in Washington, D.C. And the fourth witness is Mr. Alex Kaplan, an advisor at the American Association of College Registrars and Administrators— Administration Officers from Orange County, California. We thank the witnesses for being here today and look forward to your testimony. Pursuant to committee rules, I would ask each of you to limit your oral presentation to a 3-minute summary of your written statement. As committee members have many questions for you, the clock will count down from 3 minutes. However, pursuant to committee rule 8(d) and committee practice, committee practice will not cut you off from your testimony until you reach your 5-minute mark. I also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of the responsibility to provide accurate information to the subcommittee. I will first recognize Mr. Pulsipher for your testimony.

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Thank you, Chairman Owens and Ranking Member Adams. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you, members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to share my perspective on the value of learning and employment records. My name is Scott Pulsipher, and I've nearly for 10 years served as the president of Western Governors University. WGU is a private, nonprofit institution founded in 1997 by a bipartisan group of 19 governors who saw the opportunity to leverage technology and competency-based education to improve access, quality, and outcomes in higher education. Today, we graduate more than 60,000 students annually and have an alumni network of over 410,000 whose lives and careers reflect the promise of opportunity. At WGU, we believe that education must be designed to benefit individuals first, first and foremost, by connecting them with opportunity. After all, when individuals thrive, workforce strength, economic vitality, and innovation follow. That same belief guides our work on LERs. While LERs create value in many ways, their primary purpose is a tool for empowering individuals. As such, our LER at WGU is designed to give individuals greater control over their educational and career pathways. A comprehensive, verified record of skills earned across a lifetime allows people to understand what they can do, where they can go, and what they need to learn next. It lets job seekers apply for roles with skills-rich credentials, clearly communicate their strengths, and share proof of their capabilities down to an atomic level. As AI reshapes roles at an unprecedented speed, the need for real-time, granular skill signaling mechanisms is greater than ever. LERs meet this need by allowing students to share verified skill data throughout their learning journey, not just at graduation. More than just a tool to connect with employers, WGU's LER platform is designed to be used as soon as students begin their educational journey, helping them to understand their current their current skill profile, discover career pathways, and follow a personalized roadmap toward their desired profession. In this way, LERs unlock powerful pathfinding tools, allowing students to explore without drifting aimlessly and racking up student debt in the process. In short, LERs shift agency to the individual and enable career mobility based on proven ability, not pedigree. When readiness is signaled through verified skill, opportunity expands to include those who might otherwise have been overlooked, strengthening organizations and communities. Few things are more profoundly human than enabling individuals to pursue a self-determined life. LERs, while seemingly abstract, exist for that purpose. They translate what individuals know and can do into real opportunity. Our challenge today is not a deficit of talent, but a failure in how we identify, signal, and engage it. Skills-rich LERs contribute to changing that by making talent visible, portable, and actionable. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today, and I look forward to your questions.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I will now recognize Mr. DiDonato for your testimony.

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

Chairman Owens, Ranking Member Adams, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Greg DiDonato, Vice President of Business Development at EBSCOed. Our mission is simple: to make all learning count by connecting talented Americans with opportunities and employers through the common denominator of skills. Today, I want to share what has been achieved with the Alabama Talent Triad, the nation's first fully operational statewide talent marketplace, as well as convey why this model matters for modernizing our education and workforce system nationally. Alabama launched the Talent Triad statewide in 2024 as a population-level solution to support all students and job seekers, employers and industries, and education training providers. In just 14 months, Alabama has implemented the infrastructure for a skills-based economy that connects the supply and demand sides of the labor market. More than 132,000 Alabamians now have validated LERs. 19,000 credentials in the state have been translated into competencies and are made transparent through the Alabama Credential Registry. Over 300 employers have engaged, and up to 10,000 jobs have been available at any given time. LERs give every learner, from 8th grade to career changers to veterans, a verified, portable record of their skills and credentials. The Credential Registry brings transparency and accountability, documenting and issuing the skills programs teach and the credentials that validate the mastery required by employers. Skills-based job descriptions help employers signal their needs more clearly and connect a more qualified talent pool. Together, these tools create signaling mechanisms and real-time feedback loops between the supply and demand sides of our economy. Students see which programs lead to good jobs, employers see which programs meet industry needs, policymakers see outcomes in real times. These insights lead to shifts in paradigm program design, hiring practices, and yield new and innovative approaches for Americans to transform, transcribe, and transact skills in an ever-changing labor market. Scaling statewide and regional talent marketplaces supports the implementation of Workforce Pell. Credential quality and transparency processes allow states to evaluate short-term credentials and associated programs for quality outcomes and alignment with employer demand. The same process ensures transparency and accountability of learning outcomes, and education training programs can now be documented in terms of competencies that are matched to employers' job descriptions. Talent marketplaces also address workforce shortages and help to increase the labor force participation rate by assisting 43 million Americans with some college, no degree, veterans, disconnected youth, mid-career workers, and all Americans, allow all Americans to prepare for technological change and increase their resilience in the face of ever-changing labor market conditions. The bottom line: unified talent marketplaces and LERs work for all Americans, all career paths, and all industries. They create clearer pathways to good jobs and help employers find the talent they need. That's why EBSCOed has released a free national LER at ler.me to jumpstart this innovative work across all states. Thank you for your time and your continued bipartisan leadership in strengthening America's workforce. EBSCOed stands ready to support this work as we strive to ensure every American can connect their learning to opportunity.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you so much. And I'd like to recognize Mr. Cheney for your testimony.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Thank you. Chairman Owens, Ranking Member Adams, Chairman Walberg, and Ranking Member Scott, and members of the subcommittee, I'm pleased to join this distinguished panel today. Just yesterday, we released the latest Counting Credentials report, in which we reveal that there are at least 1.85 million unique credentials available in the US alone. These include badges, certificates, certifications, licenses, degrees of all types and all levels, and they're offered by more than 134,000 different providers or entities, including two- and four-year institutions, licensing and industry certification bodies, and private companies. One of the significant findings in this report is that more and more credentials are being issued in digital formats. When credential and skill information exists digitally, they become searchable, verifiable, and interoperable, including through digital wallets and LERs. A paper certificate can hang on a wall. A digital certificate or credential can populate a job application, unlock a learning pathway, or be discovered by an employer searching for someone with specific skills. Two takeaways from this report: First, everybody needs help making sense of and navigating this very confusing landscape. And second, we're close to a point where we can both capture all learning through digital credentials, and we can curate all credentials and skills a person has earned in digital records such as LERs. To make this possible, here are four areas that I believe require governmental action. First, ensure that the value of digital credentials, skills, and LERs reach everybody across all education and income levels, and in all communities. You can require that all relevant state and local plans under places like WIOA, Perkins V, ESSA, and the comprehensive economic development plans include planning for supporting, funding, and procuring LERs, as well as enforcing data privacy and security. Requiring that LER planning occurs across education, workforce, and economic development will increase their adoption, use, and value. Second, require the use of open and interoperable data standards. Congress should require that information about all providers, programs, credentials, and skills across all federally funded and authorized programs be made publicly available through open and interoperable data, for which the Credential Transparency Description Language is the de facto standard. Open data requirements must also extend across employment data as well, so that LERs can live up to their name by holding records of an individual's full learning and employment history. And in fact, no federal funding should be used on LERs that do not meet standards for open and interoperable data. Third, extend existing data privacy and security laws and protections to cover LERs as well. And fourth, the true value of an LER comes from validated records of credential and skill attainment, but validating skills is still a major challenge. Congress should include in both legislation and appropriations targeted support to improve the ability to validate skills attainment quickly, efficiently, accurately, and at scale. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. And like, Dr.—lastly, recognize Mr. Kaplan for your testimony.

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the subcommittee, and thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Alex Kaplan. I'm an independent expert on learning and employer— learning and records and an advisor to the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers on artificial intelligence and LERs. Seven years ago, while serving on the American Workforce Policy Advisory Board as part of the IBM team, I spoke at the White House about a vision for how a secure, verifiable, lifelong digital record of learning can help people connect with good jobs. Today, that vision—learning and employment records, or LERs—is within reach. Why this matters is simple. Tens of millions of Americans have built skills through diverse life experiences, but those hard-earned skills remain invisible to most employers. Skills earned through alternative routes are often overlooked, impeding job hunts and career prospects. As verified, portable, skills-rich credentials, LERs show what a person can actually do, regardless of where they learned it. For workers, this improves job and career options. For employers, LERs expand talent pools to candidates they might otherwise overlook and speed up hiring, making it cheaper and more efficient. Artificial intelligence makes LERs even more urgent. AI is creating a crisis of trust in hiring. Neither employers nor job seekers trust each other's authenticity. At the same time, AI can enable precise skills matching if it has verified data to work with. And AI is accelerating skill obsolescence, making dynamic records of current capabilities more valuable than static degrees. LERs provide the verified data infrastructure AI systems need. The momentum behind LERs is real. States like Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, and California are building statewide LER ecosystems as workforce development infrastructure. Employers are beginning to adopt skills-based hiring, with early success in using verified credentials to speed background checks. LERs are no longer theoretical. They are here. LERs are not without their challenges. Key amongst them are ensuring robust verification to prevent credential fraud and engineering learner control of LER data into the national system. We are aware of these challenges and understand how to address them. Lastly, due to the hard work of many people and organizations, the technical foundation for a national LER infrastructure has been established and is being tested in multiple states. As federal leadership is essential to scaling a national LER infrastructure, I offer some suggestions on how to proceed. First, lead by example in the use of LERs for federal hiring. Second, convene organizations who have led LER development over the past seven years to advise on the path forward. Third, invest in a decentralized and interoperable national LER infrastructure. Fourth, enable adoption by removing barriers to the use and issuance of LERs. Fifth, encourage private sector entrepreneurship, innovation, and participation in the LER journey. With your leadership, we can ensure that every American's skills, however and wherever earned, are visible, verified, and valued. Thank you.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Under Committee Rule 9, we will now question witnesses under the five-minute rule. I will recognize myself for five minutes. Mr. Pulsipher, WGU has been at the forefront of LERs. And I want to thank you, by the way, for your participation at the very first Trump term to kind of get this process started. Can you tell us more about why WGU felt the need to lead on this?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you, Chairman, for that question. I think it's pretty simple that WGU believes that education has to be a pathway to opportunity. And so one of the core elements of that is ensuring that the individuals that have now acquired a credential and all the competencies and skills associated with that can appropriately communicate that into the world of work. Because one of the key challenges is that every individual through that education wants to ensure that they're readied with the knowledge, skill, and ability necessary for the job. In providing now individuals, the graduates and students at WGU, with that digital transcript that has the verified skills in it, the employers now, or the workforce now, in fact, have a very clear articulation of what our graduates are readied to do. So it better aligns with the skills, the tasks, activities that exist in roles, and so that those employers can actually ensure that our graduates are skilled and credible. The other key thing is, is that it does increase the ability for those individuals to personally navigate the career options that they have in a geolocated way. Meaning that specifically with our achievement wallet, our LER, it now surfaces to them the roles at which employers in their specific location that they already have the skills that would ready for them for those jobs, and it even automates the way and mechanisms by which they can apply for those jobs and surface their transcripts, these LERs, to those employers.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Okay, thank you so much. Mr. DiDonato, what are the more important lessons learned from the early pilots that we should understand?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

Thank you for the question. I would say there's several lessons that that we've learned through this implementation in Alabama as well as some other pilots that we've been a part of. Number one, messaging. Talent marketplaces can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, so we need to really make sure that we have very specific messaging, clear messaging, easy-to-understand messaging for each of the user personas, whether it's students, whether it's veterans, education and training providers, employers, etc., about what this means to them and how this is supportive. Two, partnerships are extremely important. There's a lot of really good work happening at each level, but in siloed work, and so we need to make sure that talent marketplaces and LERs are an amplification of what's happening as opposed to it being a threatening existence to them. So partnerships are extremely important all the way across the board. Without them, obviously, this work does not exist. Legislation and funding. Time is of essence to a lot of folks. The folks who are invested in this, whether it's employers, whether it's education, training providers, whether it's students, whether it's job seekers, need to know that this is going to be a persistent opportunity for them to invest their time that that's needed. So, funding, legislation, the signals that they know that this opportunity will last for the long haul is important. It's an evolving conversation, so we need to make sure that the technologies we're utilizing, what we're investing in, also we're evolving and consistently moving at a rapid speed and have those capabilities. And then lastly, we need big data. We need a lot of information to make this work. We need a lot of information to make sure we're understanding the cross-sectoral partnerships and opportunities that are out there. I would say those are all key lessons that we've learned throughout this process.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Mr. Kaplan, you and other witnesses have highlighted that LERs are a tool that fits within the broader framework of a talent marketplace. How could this be— how could this kind of tool facilitate better coordination across different systems?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Thank you for that question. The thing about learning and employment records is that they represent a common set of data and a common set of protocols around the skills and competency that individuals have accumulated over the course of their lifetime. If we can settle on this common set of standards, which we're well on our way to doing, we'll be able to enable people to transfer those— that information about themselves from one place to another. To employers, to academic institutions, and for those employers and institutions and others to see that that verifiable data is accurate and correct, enabling them to do things like offer a job to somebody, admit them to their university. So there are a lot of opportunities here where by bringing LERs to the forefront and establishing them as a common set of data, we'll be able to use them in order to support and make easier the navigation of the talent marketplace.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I now recognize the ranking member for purpose of questioning the witnesses.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you, gentlemen, for being here. From 2021 to 2025, Credential Engine partnered with with eight community colleges in North Carolina as part of their Aligning the Workforce Education System for Manufacturing. This is a project which was funded by the Department of Labor through a Strengthening Community Colleges Training Grant. Mr. Cheney, could you tell me more about Credential Engine's work on on this project, particularly related to competency-based digital badging? And given the success of the project, what role can WIOA-funded programs play in standardizing credentials?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Yes, thank you for that question. So, yeah, Forsyth was a pretty tremendous leader in this project. They convened a number of regional community colleges so that they could collectively work on a manufacturing initiative along with a dozen or more manufacturing companies. And what they recognized was that this was a regional initiative, that there were many players in it, it wasn't just Forsyth. And so what we were doing there is putting all of the information—you've heard the conversation this morning about open data and interoperable data—so we were working with Forsyth and the other community colleges to make available information about the credentials that they offer, the programs, the competencies, and skills into this open, interoperable data format so they could be used both in translating what students had earned and what they knew to the employers that were in the manufacturing sector in that region. And they could use it also to move between the colleges and not be locked into just one program, but they could get the training and skills they needed more easily across the different colleges.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Okay, thank you, sir. In your testimony, you mentioned that worker protection should be included with any effort to increase the use of LER, specifically employer surveillance, retaliation— retaliation as a concern. For example, an employee could refuse— employer could refuse to validate a worker's credentials as a form of retaliation. And so as these LEAs become more common, what guardrails can the federal government implement to prevent employers from using them as a mechanism to retaliate against workers?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

So I would say the, the most important thing is to ensure that the information about what an individual has earned is actually in their control. So it's quite likely that an employer or an employee will earn credentials both through the employer but also outside. So regardless of where they earn it, that information should be securely included in an LER so that employer or that employee has control over it.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Okay, so, uh-huh,

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

no, that's fine.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

So, so in your testimony, uh, you state that the data rights and privacy must be foundational in an implementation of LERs and that workers should own and completely control their LERs, including the data and the information that make up, make up the LER and what can and cannot be shared with employers. So can you elaborate on the risks of scaling up the use of LERs without ensuring that workers retain ownership or control?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

I would say that the, the risks are the same if we're talking about just education data or any personally identifiable information. LERs are just another example of where we're helping to make information about what someone has earned accessible for their control. So as I pointed out in my testimony, I think one of the things we need to do is to just extend the existing privacy and data security laws we have on the books so that they cover LERs as well.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Okay. Now, according to recent surveys, many employers say they struggle to evaluate the return on investments for training programs. So could LERs make— help measure training effectiveness and workforce readiness more accurately?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

So there's a number of issues that are at play there. They can certainly help because we'll have in one place a more secure and more accurate record of what an individual has earned and where they've earned it. Right now, we try and come up with impact information about short-term credentials, which is very, very difficult. We're making some good progress on that, of being able to get better outcome data for short-term credentials, but having it all in a secure record would make it easier to evaluate what an individual has earned and and how effective it's been.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back my 13 seconds.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you so much. I'd now like to recognize the chairman of the full committee, my friend from Michigan, Chairman Walberg.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you as well for that amazing video. Second time I've seen that, but I've—as I've told you, I still refuse to believe that you're the graphic artist until I see the Super Bowl ring on that hand, okay? Mr. Pulsipher, good to see you again. Who are the key stakeholders in the education space that are the most important partners when it comes to scaling LERs?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you for that question, Chairman. I think you have to start with institutions themselves. I mean, educational institutions, they are key stakeholders because effectively they're the ones who in fact are verifying or validating the the skills and competencies that individuals are acquiring, including the credentials that they're awarded as a result of that. If they are not moving towards more of a digital transcript of those skills and competencies, then in fact the talent economy or that talent marketplace fails. You certainly see the employers as key stakeholders as well. They have to be able to ingest this machine-readable digital transcript of those skills rather than calling into an institution to validate that they actually graduated from that, have the degree, etc. But you also have technology companies and the, uh, those providers of that data set, whether it's applicant tracking system, HRIS— HRIS meaning human resource information systems, etc.— they are also key stakeholders. But all of those are there ultimately to support the individual as the primary stakeholder. The individual ultimately has to see the value in its signaling being a better signal of the capabilities that they have that are relevant to the jobs that they're seeking.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

And that certainly is key with all of education, isn't it?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

It is.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

Yeah, that individual. Thank you. Mr. DiDonato, how do LERs and the system they're part of actually use AI to create the matches between programs, credentials, and job descriptions that you've described?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

Thank you, sir, for the question. Um, we make sure that the AI is trained on validated data, verifiable data, and good data. The AI today is— there's a chance that AI ultimately is utilizing inappropriate data that's just obscured and ineffective. We're making sure that the validated data, that you're getting from student records, from employers, from the education training providers is, is what's training the AI. So the AI works for us instead of us working for the AI.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

Have that human moral factual thumbprint, right?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

Yes, we have a human in a loop to make sure that it is working appropriately.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

Okay Thank you. Mr. Kaplan, we've heard about some of the LER pilots that have been adopted around the country. Could you speak about the importance of interoperability as tools like LERs are developed?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Yes, thank you for the question. So interoperability is essential to the functioning of a national learning and employment record infrastructure. The reason for that is because people move. They move around, they go from state to state, and they look for jobs all over the country. So we need to enable a credential that's issued in Alabama to be accepted by an academic institution or an employer in California. Absent interoperability, we're going to see the rise of, I'll call, walled gardens of data that really impede the ability of individuals to use that data and to make that data essential to their job hunts and their career explorations.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. I appreciate the, the answers, and, uh, I yield back 1 minute and 12 seconds.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate it. I'd like to now recognize my friend from Georgia, Ms. McBath.

Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA)SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, gentlemen, for being here this morning. Really appreciate you, and I'm so glad this is such a bipartisan issue for our committee. We're excited about that. Mr. Pulsipher, good to see you again, and Mr. Cheney. I know that you are both fully committed to ensuring that every American is able to easily navigate and understand the continuously expanding universe of degrees, credentials, and competencies. I deeply appreciate your input, as well as the other witnesses, for joining us for today's discussion on learning and employment records, or as we're calling them, LERs. The American people are angry, and that anger is truly justified. One of the reasons there's so much anger and so much frustration is that it has become too expensive, too confusing, and too slow for everyday people to obtain the skills and to prove that they have knowledge necessary to get a good job and provide a decent life for themselves and for their families. There are millions of Americans who have done everything right. They've done everything right, and they have next to nothing to show for it. Despite going to school, paying for a badge or credential of some kind, or learning directly on the job, so many Americans find themselves no closer to the financial freedom and independence that they put all of their hard-earned efforts towards to begin with. With that comes feelings of shame and feelings of resentment towards not only yourself, but the system that you put your faith in that really didn't do anything at all to help you move closer to a decent life. While not all have equal value and some are certainly better than others, a degree remains the surest path to economic success. However, it's not the only way to get there. Congress must do more to ensure that workers can effectively show that they have the legitimate skills and credentials needed to do the work. The reality is not everyone can afford to put their entire life on hold, take out a loan, and go back to school for years at a time to land a decent job or make a change in their career. That just isn't how life works for most people. There's no reason why our workforce and education system should be so overly dependent upon young adults making incredibly expensive, long-term, and difficult-to-reverse decisions when job markets really don't work like that at all. The economy is always changing, and we must set our workers up to adapt so that they can keep up. Workers and employers, they need an education and workforce system that is easy to navigate, allows for quick adjustments, and meets them exactly where they are. Just as employers need to know which skills, credentials, and training programs are worthwhile and truly are passing along the knowledge necessary for their students to do these jobs and safely and effectively do them, but students and workers need to know exactly where to go and how much it is going to cost them to get the skills necessary to provide a decent life for themselves. For learning and employment records to become a common practice, it would require the establishment and maintenance of standardized credential registries or databases so that workers and employers can validate the information that's provided against an approved database of credentials and information. It's so important that workers, employers, and education providers understand what credentials are available so that they are better informed of what degrees, skills, and competencies are out there and which ones are really worthwhile. My bill, the CREATES Act, which I introduced last Congress with Representative Hayes, would authorize funding for grants to states to help them create these databases. Mr. Cheney, can you please talk about how this bill—since we just talked about it briefly in the back—how this bill would help scale up state efforts in developing credential repositories as well as learning and employment records?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Yes, thank you for the question. So the bill was drafted with a number of organizations to ensure that states would have the resources to develop these registries and to use the open interoperable data standards, all of which are necessary backbone for, for the LER infrastructure so that you can have LERs issued to people, and they can draw information about the credential information from a secure repository of validated data about those credentials and skills. We've seen this work being done in several states, but we need to get there quickly and get there at scale so that we can have a national system available.

Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA)SPEAKER_10

Well, thank you so much. My sister state Alabama has done so, but I look forward to finding a Republican, especially on this committee, to get this bill introduced in a bipartisan way this Congress, and I hope that we can also get the bipartisan reauthorization of WIOA signed into law by President Trump as well. And I yield.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you so much. I'd like now to recognize my friend from Guam, Mr. Moylan.

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_06

Chairman Owens and Ranking Member Adams, thank you for hosting this important hearing about learning and employment records, LERs. These digital records are essentially digital resumes, allowing employers to quickly verify skills and records for workers to be matched with jobs that fit their skills. And this type of digital innovation, it can help fill in roles in places where staffing is a problem, and make career pathways more accessible, and streamline hiring process. It's pretty terrific, I think. However, I hope we can get it as well. So let's talk about, Mr. Kaplan, about Guam and the other U.S. territories. We often lag behind in digitalization, and I would like to focus today on how we can expand LER usage for employers and workers in the territories, in the U.S. territories and other remote areas, to take advantage of their benefits for workforce connection and in understaffed sectors. So, Mr. Kaplan, are there any technological prerequisites for employers to adopt learning and employment records?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Thank you. The technological preconditions for employers to adopt learning and employment records are really the ability to pursue— to consume these digital objects, which the learning and employment records are. Fortunately, almost every employer in the world today can do that. So one of the things that we've been working on with a with a great deal of focus, and I give credit to my colleagues at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on on some of this work, is really understanding how employers will consume those records coming into their applicant tracking systems as well as into their human resources information systems. So I think we're on a good path to it. And as long as we can get aligned with the standard way that an that employers are looking at job candidates, I think we can make progress there. From a student's perspective or a learner's perspective, it's similar to what my colleagues have said here. Any academic institution should be able to take the skills that students have learned through the coursework and turn them into a digital object. Now, one of the things that we are doing at AACRAO is to make it basically no-cost, low-cost for any institution in the country, including in the territories, to be able to provide us with whatever information they have about a student—it could be a PDF transcript—and we'll be able to take that and turn it into the digital object that's going to be required. Finally, I would also say, since you you talk about the territories, the movement towards these kind of records is a global movement. This is not only happening in the United States, but it's basically happening all around the world. So I think we're all on the right path here, and I think it's pretty straightforward to provide the support that you're looking for.

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_06

I like your answer. Thank you. Um, so do you think there's something Congress can do in addition to help the territories see through this for the LERs, for the employers?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Yeah, very much. I think there's a lot that Congress can do. So I think some of the keys to this are making sure that the territories have employment information, that they have modernized employment information that they can provide, that their institutions and employers have the capability to consume those, and that you as an employer in the territories, that you lead by example, not only in using LERs for your own hiring practices, but also being able to accept learning and employment records to meet regulatory requirements that you might have. On the employer side of it, I think it's really critical to work with the employers in order to understand the deep skills that are there. And I think Congress can really assist by that, by helping us move towards standardization of the protocols that are going to be required for this to be effective on a national basis. I mean, we're in the very early days of this, and I can't overemphasize the importance of arriving at a standard—a set of standards and protocols that allow for the interoperability to occur. This will reduce the cost for everybody, and it will accelerate the adoption of them. So Congress can really assist us in that. And then the final thing I would say is support the territories with assistance to build the kind of state central systems that we're seeing rise in California and Alabama, Tennessee, and others that will facilitate the creation of an LER network within your territories.

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_06

Thank you so much. Mr. Cheney, if you can add on, we've got about 15 seconds. Anything you'd like to say for the territories?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

I, I think Mr. Kaplan has it generally right, um, and it goes back to my comment that we really need to make sure that this isn't being set out as a solution for those that can afford it, for those that are in wealthy districts or wealthy states. We have to have a laser focus on ensuring that the value of LERs reach everybody. And we can start that by making sure that information is being delivered for your K-12 diplomas and earnings, but all the way through so that you're building that record from start to finish.

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_06

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I'd like now to recognize my friend from Arizona, Ms grijalva.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to all the witnesses for being here. I know it's a big sacrifice on your time, and we appreciate it. It's a very exciting opportunity for this subcommittee to move forward something on a bipartisan basis that will really help critical— make that critical connection between those seeking jobs and those looking for qualified employees. I do reject the idea that we're shifting away from higher education. And for all, many people are exposed to opportunities and career paths when through school, through internships, through those first jobs that I think are really exciting. And so my question would be for Mr. Cheney. You state in your testimony that Congress must proactively address the digital divide through digital literacy and access. If we were to scale up the use of LERs, I'm concerned that if LERs were to be commonplace tomorrow, there would be many individuals who already have certain barriers to employment, such as older workers, persons with disability, or individuals that don't have access to the internet for a variety of reasons. Some people live in a digital divide area. Those people wouldn't be able to keep up with the digital skills needed to maintain an LER. So can you elaborate on the challenges LERs could create for digital literacy and how we might address those challenges?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

I am certainly not an expert on the issues of ensuring that we have digital access across the entire country and the territories, but I would simply say that this is another core example of where that digital divide is hurting us. It's hurting people, it's hurting employers, it's hurting our national economy and our competitiveness, and so this is another instance where I think we need to have a real focus of attention and resources to make sure that we're extending digital access and making sure that it is fully available, not just randomly available and you have to drive to a Starbucks to get access, but you can get it anytime, anywhere. So this is another example of why we need to address that issue.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Yeah, thank you. Do any of the other witnesses have anything they wanted to add?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Thank you for that opportunity. I would just suggest that the LER itself is, is simple as— it is as simple and intuitive as mobile applications. And given that 95-plus percent of our Americans and households actually have access to a mobile device, a smartphone, they have access to the LER. I think the digital divide is a challenge with respect to access to the educational and skill development pathways they need, because so much of that cannot be done on a mobile device. But the LER itself is highly portable and highly accessible because of its mobile nature.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Okay, great. Thank you. And then I wanted to ask about skills-based hiring, which is an underlying approach concept to the LERs. It seems to me that skills-based hiring has some potential to increase equitable opportunities for those who lack a 4-year degree because it would allow someone who has the skills needed for a job but lacks the former formal credentialing to apply because of the unnecessary requirements of a college diploma. Could you share with us additional ways which skill-based hiring could further improve job prospects of those that lack a college degree? And I'll start with Mr. Cheney.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Yeah, I'll be brief because I know that my, my colleagues have input on this as well. Uh, so I think for me, even if you have a college degree, you're earning and learning things throughout your entire career, and being able to remember everything that you were awarded when you were 20 and you're trying to get rehired at 50 is difficult. So having an LER is that way of having that entire record of your education and employment that you can digitally share without having to try and remember it, make it up, and, you know, convince an employer that you actually did earn it.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Thank you. Yes,

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

yes. So skills-based hiring is, is certainly an opportunity for all the things that, that been mentioned and all the opportunities and benefits that have been discussed. One of the things that I think the full talent marketplace and the LAR will do for skills-based hiring is it better grounds and puts context into the skills. If we understand the credentials, we understand the context in which you achieve those skills or validated them. Employers have a hard time, based on all of our work and things that we've talked to, under just having a removal of degree because you're not truly grounding the skills in which they were earned and learned. And that's really an important part of, I think, this full conversation that we're having, not just about LERs, but really understanding how skills were achieved by each individual at any level of education.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Thank you, Mr. Kaplan. I have 17 whole seconds.

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Employers agree with you completely. So the reason skills-based hiring is happening is because employers face barriers in finding people who have the skills and abilities to fill the jobs that they need. Absent a skills-based approach to hiring, if we just look at a formal diploma, we're excluding enormous amounts of people in the population. In addition, jobs are changing really rapidly, so the skills that people need need to change. Employers are very much in favor of this for exactly the reason that it's going to make it easier and cheaper for them to find the people who can be successful in those jobs.

Rep. Adelita Grijalva (D-AZ)SPEAKER_09

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I'd now like to recognize my friend from Florida, Mr. Fine.

Rep. Randy Fine (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know Back when I went to college a long time ago, I told people it didn't really matter what you got your degree in because you learned three things: you learned how to read, not just read literally, but how to read hundreds of pages a day; you learned how to write, not just one or two sentences, but how to construct papers over multiple days and very quick periods of time; and you learned how to think critically about things. But a couple things have changed in the very long time since I went to college, and it is the growth of the new form of education. You know, when I was in school, you could go into the pre-med track, you could go into the pre-law track. Well, now at too many schools, we have the pre-Starbucks track, which is where you get a degree in something fake like gender studies or queer studies, where really you're not qualified to do anything when you get done except perhaps go and work at Starbucks. And so I think that for employers that are looking to hire people, finding the skills that they need in order to employ people is even more important. That also, even if I look back into what my degree was in and my skills 30 years ago in things like computer science, it's a lot different world today. The fact that I might have a degree in something from 30 years ago does not mean that degree is in and of itself all that useful today. The programming language of 30 years ago are not the programming languages of today. So I think that's why what we're talking about here is so important. President Pulsipher, if Congress were to support wider adoption of learning and employment records, what one or two measurable outcomes like wage growth, reduced time to hire, or increased completion of short-term programs would we expect to see in 5 years that would tell us that this approach is working?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you for that, Congressman. I do think you've even highlighted some of the things that I would raise, which is that we certainly know that today the one-and-done model of college and to work is not actually what the world we live in already, to where the continual upskilling is required. So I do think what you'd actually see is you'd see a dramatic increase in the number of individuals enrolling in and completing short-duration credentials, meaning sub-degree. And it's not only for those who don't hold a bachelor's degree, it's also for those who are post- degree because the continual upskilling that's actually required. You also see manifest what we even saw in a recent survey of over 3,100 employers, which is employers themselves are already recognizing that both experience and microcredentials have significant value in signaling that you're ready to possess the competencies and skills needed for the job. Another metric you would see was what percentage of the individuals that are being hired or promoted into jobs that are not holding a bachelor's degree but are being actually hired on the basis of experience or an upskilling credential, et cetera, you'd also see that. But most importantly, to your point, I do think you'd actually see significant economic mobility among a broader swath of the workforce population rather than only in the top quartile. You'd see it across the whole quartile because you'd see economic mobility across the whole.

Rep. Randy Fine (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Sure, because we've got an issue, right? We've got people who need people to fill jobs, and then we've got people who are willing to fill those jobs, but it's hard for the employer to figure out what skills the potential employee had. And simply saying you have a degree in X from Y institution doesn't necessarily fill the gap. Plus, frankly, for many people, the economic returns of taking 4 years off— one of the big challenges I remember telling people when I went to business school was for the vast majority of people who go and get an MBA, the return is negative. Because if they took 2 years off from work and then they paid a fortune for their degree, you're never going to make up down the road for that loss. There were a few schools where that wasn't the case, but for the vast majority it wasn't. And so, again, helping people get credentials quickly, easily, and cheaply, and then aligning them with employers helps. Mr. DiDonato, from the employer perspective, have you seen reductions in time to fill positions, lower turnover, or better job performance when hiring through skills-based job descriptions powered by the Alabama Talent Triad?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

I think the return on that is is too early, but what we are hearing from employers is having validated LERs, validated skills, does help them to move through the the process quicker. We are still working through opportunities where they are using multiple job boards, using the Talent Triad, using different scenarios to determine what those those look like. But all employers are very much in favor of getting the understanding the talent pipeline in a more in a more sophisticated way, understanding where those credentials and skills are coming from, and making sure that the programs that are being invested in align with their needs. And that's ultimately, I think, where this is all moving towards in a very fast and equitable way.

Rep. Randy Fine (R-FL)SPEAKER_04

Great. Well, look, I think what we're talking about to some degree is a CliffsNotes. For the same reason people will go to a Michelin-starred restaurant or frankly look for a degree from certain institutions, they're looking for something easy to identify what it is that they're looking for. And when you're an employee looking for a job, you're still a product and you're looking for ways to identify yourself appropriately to the employer that you may want to hire you. So, I appreciate all of you and the work that you're doing. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I would like to recognize my, my friend Thank

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-CA)SPEAKER_14

you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all the witnesses for being here. Mr. Cheney, your organization did a report recently that identified 1.8 million credentials available in the United States. Another organization, reputable organization, did a report and evaluation that said, of all those credentials, you only see about 12% increase in actually wage and benefit. So, it seems we've got a real disconnect, and we have an opportunity in the Workforce Investment Act reauthorization to close that disconnect. So, everything you've talked about increases efficiencies, benefits the American economy by connecting talent to where the need is. Technology, unfortunately, as a representative from the San Francisco Bay Area, I was told years ago, don't be seduced by the marketing of the technology. It's the application of that technology. In an environment right now where I hear young people all the time tell me about ghost jobs and how difficult it is, you sit there, it's very impersonal, you're on a digital platform that could be really beneficial, but it's not connecting humans to humans. And this I say from somebody who was an employer in the service industry where, if you didn't identify people with inherent people skills, you didn't last very long in the hotel and restaurant industry. So, Mr. Cheney, to begin with you, how do we use this opportunity to actually change that? So, 1.8 million credentials, but only a 12% identified benefit for all those people who are spending that money. There's a lot of waste in the system. And where that waste goes is just a drain on the American economy.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, and I would agree there is an opportunity with the WIOA reauthorization to help address this. I would also say that there's an opportunity being taken right now in the Workforce Pell regulation negotiation, where they're looking at how do we get better data about the outcomes of short-term programs. That is where the majority of the growth is happening in the marketplace in these short-term programs, these skill-based training programs, and we don't have enough effort going into getting the actual outcome data. There is an initiative that's been stood up by the Strada Foundation called CredLens, which is targeting this exact challenge of how do we get better records, better information on the outcomes of short-term credentials. I think there's a lot that we can learn from the work that they're doing. But one of the things in WIOA is to really enforce the requirement that if you're going to be on an ETPL, the Eligible Training Provider List, you have to report your outcome data so that we have a better ability to decide what we're funding and what we're not funding through that program, but we can extend that to other programs as well.

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-CA)SPEAKER_14

As a follow-up to that, this committee, before I was on it, and in California when I was chair of the Labor Committee, we were having a lot of problems with for-profit colleges, where what we did in California was just say, if this is what your advertising is, you are legally required to connect the dots, to make sure that you're actually placing these people. And that's worked really well in terms of saving a lot of—or creating an efficiency where the people who are applying and the employer knows that you're actually getting value out of what they're marketing. Mr. Kaplan, do you have anything to add to that in your experience?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

I do. I think it's one of the really important to look at the fact that we're really focused on turning all these credentials into digital objects. I'm going to sort of take down that path here because I think that one of the challenges that people have in receiving a credential is what do you do with it? All mine are hanging on my wall. So I think it's— we need to make those a more more powerful for people by giving them digital control over it, and therefore they can share it more broadly. We also need to encourage employers to move towards skills-based hiring so that they can look at the credentials and the skills within those credentials that people have, and they can use them as a match. Now, one final thought I think in this area is also— we're also trying to encourage the proliferation of this digital information over time. As we get more information out into the universe, there's— we ought to be able to see how credentials and skills coming from one place match to people's abilities to get jobs, because all that information is going to be out there. And so I think that if we're able to inspect the data more accurately, we have more data available that can— people can be used, we can really tighten up this connection. Between the skills that people are getting and the jobs that they're getting.

Rep. Mark DeSaulnier (D-CA)SPEAKER_14

That's great. And one other thing, I just think we can look at other economies who do this better, the Germans, for instance. Now, I know culturally it's different, but connecting, whether it's a craft or it's college degree credential, you're connecting talent with the job opportunities and looking and also measuring where there's going to be changes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Now I'd like to recognize my friend from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici.

Rep. Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_01

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member. And thank you to the witnesses. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this interesting, bipartisan issue today. But that being said, if we want to talk about education workforce data infrastructure, we should talk about what's happening with the dismantling of the Department of Education. The Trump administration has fired more than half of the department's workers without cause, and now the secretary is using interagency agreements to illegally transfer essential offices and operations, including the Office of Postsecondary Education, to other agencies. I also submit I think we should be talking about that, but we should also be talking about the critical issue of AI in education and the privacy and security and bias issues. We're not doing that today. But this is an interesting conversation. I want to note that I have some questions and concerns about LERs, learning and employment record systems. I'm interested especially in what kind of worker protections are incorporated into the design. I saw something about college transcripts, and as someone who didn't have a traditional college path, as someone who has constant contact with people in higher education, I'm a little concerned that we're putting a lot of pressure on students. I can tell you there's some people who have not-so-great college transcripts, but they have amazing skills like communication, collaboration, critical thinking, all these things that are harder to measure. So I wonder, I mean, Digital Promise, which is a bipartisan, nonprofit organization dedicated to accelerating innovation in education and workforce development, which is a good thing, good thing, they surveyed a wide range of workers about LERs, and many of them were women of color who had experienced discrimination. They expressed a lot of concern that the additional amount of available data, including age and gender, that could increase the chances of discrimination. That's a problem. I wonder how much control someone has. It's like, oh, my gosh, what if you got grades that you weren't really crazy about, but that doesn't mean you don't have the skills for or the and the interpersonal skills, as well, as Mr. DeSaulnier was mentioning? So I'm trying to wrap my mind about how that works. Digital Promise also identified five key design principles. One of those is giving individuals control over how their information is shared, but what I want to know is, do they control what information is shared? And another is the safety and privacy concerns, which I mentioned are sort of surrounding this huge, looming AI issue. So I think I'll ask Mr. Cheney, and then if there's time, others can weigh in: Why is it important for LERs to be explicit about who has access to individual information and how that information is used? Should individuals have the option to omit any sort of demographic or personally identifiable information? Because I think about, what if someone is a victim of a crime, or what if they're a Dreamer or undocumented, or survivor of domestic violence? There's a lot of categories where people might not want a lot of that information shared. And how do we address this notion that what might be shown on paper doesn't really measure whether somebody has the sort of 21st century job skills, which is the creative, critical thinking? So if we want to start with Mr. Cheney.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Yes, thank you for the question. So absolutely one of the foundational elements of an LER has to be both privacy and security. Security, but self-sovereignty. I get to decide what I share, which is basically what happens now. Everyone is going to draft their resume to meet the needs of that particular job they're applying for. An LER simply is a way to digitally store all of your experiences, maybe not the great grades that you had you want to share, but the fact that your last boss recognized you and gave you a digital badge for great teamwork. You led that project really well. That may not be a certificate, but it may be a digital recognition that you got from your boss that you want in your LER that you can share with that next employer.

Rep. Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_01

You could also put that on a resume.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

You could, but now we have it digitally and it's just there as a record. So it's simply a different way of sharing this. But self-sovereignty has to be foundational to what we're putting in place. And that's why I think that it's one of the standards that Congress can help us make sure is in place. For setting up a national LER system, or those kind of requirements.

Rep. Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Anybody else want to weigh in in the final—

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Yeah, can I just— I think this is a really important topic because I think one of the key differences is that in a resume or a LinkedIn profile, this is you actually deciding and declaring that I have these skills, etc. That's very different than having verified and validated competencies and particular skills. And so, even in the case of where you have an employer who's, in fact, signaled that this individual has these particular skill sets, that employer is actually verified of being able to write that to your actual digital transcript. Now, the other thing to your question is the individual also has the right to accept whether or not they want that on their digital transcript, meaning you don't just automatically have to take everything. You're still the principal. You are the one who's in charge of what's contained within it, what of that information you want to share with others, etc.

Rep. Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_01

That's really helpful. And as I yield back, Mr. Chairman, I do want to note that I have a bipartisan No Robot Bosses Act that I recently introduced to address the seriousness of employers who are using AI with no humans to scan resumes coming in or job applications coming in. I invite my colleagues to take a look at that. And I yield back.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. I would like to recognize my friend from Missouri, Mr. Onder.

Rep. Robert Onder (R-MO)SPEAKER_16

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for coming before the subcommittee today. In this Congress, we've frequently discussed how college for all has failed our society. Employers no longer value bachelor's degrees as much as they once did. 80% of employers value experience over education when evaluating job candidates, and recent surveys have shown that nearly half plan to eliminate bachelor's degree requirements. Many students graduating from four-year colleges and universities are simply not prepared for the workforce as much as they ought to be. Not only have recent college graduates' reading, writing, and math skills declined, 78% of employers reported having a candidate with strong technical skills but performing poorly because of lacking so-called soft skills, such as teamwork and problem-solving and work ethic. So, in many cases, credentials carry more meaning for employers. Learning and employment records can provide employers with a much clearer picture of an applicant's skills and whether they would be a good fit for the company. Mr. Kaplan gave a great example of Maria and how her LER boosted her hiring value. Maria's LER showed employers that she was far more qualified for a potential job than what her resume and educational background might have indicated. Her LER shows that she has a vast array of quantifiable competencies gained from her military experience and work experience. And the best part is that Maria owns all the data in her LER. However, one concern that we need to address that I'm sure has been touched on earlier in this hearing is the need to make sure that we have robust privacy protections in this system. Mr. Kaplan, what privacy and data security protections should be in place to ensure that Maria and millions other of Americans can feel comfortable in that their LER data won't be misused or abused or hacked?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

This is very similar to other kinds of technologies like this. You can think about medical records and the issues that we've had to work our way through to make sure that that system worked. I think that the core to solving this problem is, one, you have to engineer privacy into the infrastructure itself, and that means that the infrastructure has to ask questions and challenge and work on these protocols and standards that ensure that digital privacy is protected, people give informed consent when they use that information or when they share that information. Another thing I think that Congress should consider is we should step back and we should take a look at FERPA and FCRA, both of which have direct relevance to the use and sharing of this kind of information. Both of those requirements were written in a pre-artificial intelligence age, and I think it's going to be critical that we take a look at that regulatory framework and we update it to ensure that the kind of privacy and security protections that you're talking about are embedded from a regulatory perspective as well as from a legislative perspective.

Rep. Robert Onder (R-MO)SPEAKER_16

And of course, to really unleash LERs' potential, we need employer buy-in. Right now, many small businesses would be uncertain about how LERs might accommodate their human resource needs and their current talent acquisition strategy. They cite any number of technical, regulatory, and cultural barriers to the adoption of LER. Yeah, Mr. Kaplan, how would you— what would you identify as the top barriers, and how can Congress help overcome those?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

I think the top areas, and I think this is particularly important for small and medium-sized businesses, is frankly just simplicity of access. So, I really support the state initiatives that are focused on overall economic and workforce development and the movement of the states in order to create these kind of systems, because most people work in small and medium-sized businesses. We need to make this really simple. And the good news is, we can make it incredibly simple. So, one is sort of that. Let's make this system simple. Let's have the communities that are are looking at these jobs, really engaged in all of this happening. And then the other side of it is we have to show demonstrable value to employers that taking skills-based information through learning and employment records makes it cheaper, easier, and better for them so they can find— they get better quality candidates that they can take a look at. They can get through the employment process quicker. And then when those people are in jobs, that they're more successful. So that's going to take some work, some time, but I think we understand how to go about it.

Rep. Robert Onder (R-MO)SPEAKER_16

Thank you. I yield back.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. And I'd like to recognize my good friend from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

Thank you very much. Mr. DiDonato, are there technical changes that employers would need to make to upgrade their systems to accept skills-based records, you think?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

there are certainly some technical changes or opportunities to upgrade. There are some different standards available like LER, LER-RS, but ultimately, when we're talking about talent marketplaces as an opportunity, we also can bypass a lot of the HRIS or ATS systems because we've built in the opportunity to allow for employers, small businesses, medium-sized businesses, and large businesses to understand the talent that's available and to

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

I think they probably can figure it out. I think in a lot of cases, I was a little bit afraid of having the government get more involved in this. Do you think there's certain people, including Republican congressmen, who want to push more credentialism? Even if that credentialism is through a tech school, they want more credentialism. Do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing? Because credentialism is a little bit different than a skills-based hiring decision, isn't it? Is credentialism good or bad?

Mr. Greg DiDonatoSPEAKER_02

I think the understanding of what the credentials offer and the skills that they offer is a good thing. The transparency that LERs and talent marketplaces offer is definitely a positive.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

Okay, I didn't exactly get get the answer to your question. We'll ask one of the others to respond. Credentialism means that, to me, you took a class, maybe you wouldn't be good at doing this job in the workplace, but you took a class, so you get a credential.

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

And

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

I think skills-based means maybe even the employer himself gives you a test or talks to references or whatever and says this person can do a good job. Do you think credentialism based on academic achievement is a good or bad thing?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

I'll take that question, Congressman. I think if you start from the end and work backwards, and the end being, what does the workforce require? I do believe that the workforce and employers are looking for proxies that signal the competencies and the skills required for the role and the job. A good example of that is simply how industry certifications across technology sector, across healthcare, et cetera, those have emerged to be a great proxy that if the holder of that certificate or that credential, if you will, that already is a great signal of the skill that this individual already has demonstrated the competency needed to do that job. Now, that is actually a great market-based model of using credentials to signal value. You're certainly right that if we're not careful, you take any course, you get awarded a badge. You take any other class, you get a badge, etc. That will propagate the dynamic that you see on Credential Engine today. 1.8 million things registered on there, but reality is is that the ones that are actually credible in value in the market are a small, small fraction of that, and it's now created noise in the system that's not good for anybody, including the individuals who are getting the badges.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

Okay. Mr. Kaplan, is there a concern here that, as we delve into this, somebody decides what's on that LER, what you have to do to get a good LER or not a good LER? Is that going to be a difficult thing, or is that something that makes it more difficult and we don't want the government sloshing around and making decisions as to what to do here? Or do we trust government to be able to coach people how to put together a good LER?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

I think we need to rely on those who are issuing the LERs and issuing the credentials to make that decision. So in terms of the— who would

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

that person be?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Without— it could be an employer, it could be an academic institution, it could be a government agency. I mean, to me, an LER or credential is just— it's a container, and that container represents a set of skills and competencies that are there. And I believe that over time the marketplace can sort out those that are good and those that are bad.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

And if we say the marketplace as opposed— the marketplace is almost the opposite of an LER, in that an LER is somebody, an academic, a government agency or whatever, is saying you have such and such a competency. And without an LER, the individual himself, the guy in the room doing the interviewing, has to make that decision, or together with whatever the references tell him, or the prospective employee has to tell him. So I guess my fear is that if the government gets involved, the government begins to set standards that, you know, maybe a person is perfectly capable of doing the job does not hit those standards. And that's my concern. We better just let the natural evolution as over time more and more employers become aware that particularly college degrees aren't worth much. And as one employer told me, a master's degree is almost a negative because it takes you too long to deprogram these people.

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Well, when I talked about standards earlier in my testimony, I was really talking about technical standards. That can support interoperability, not standards in defining what's a good LER or not a good LER. One thing that I would add is we also envision within this learning and employment record universe self-asserted skills. So we're not just looking at formal credentialization, but we're also giving people the opportunity and encouraging them to bring forward skills and competence that they have and and put that into the LER as well. The key to all of this is just transparency about the data that's in the LER. So whoever looks at that, whether it's an employer or an academic institution, they know where that information came from. If it's coming from an employer or an academic institution, you can verify it. If it's coming from an individual, they can state why they think they have those skills and competencies. And so the person reading that LER can make the determination based upon the information that's in it whether or not they agree with the value that it's bringing.

Rep. Glenn Grothman (R-WI)SPEAKER_15

Thank you for giving me the additional time.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Thank you so much. Now I'd like to recognize my friend from Virginia, Ranking Member Scott.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we all agree that skills are important and we're not talking about just digitizing a resume. We can do that today. But creating a record that lists specific skills that can be recognized nationally. Now, that often's many questions. Mr. Cheney, because you're looking at what the process is for validating a particular credential, who gets to make the verification, how you evaluate credentials, who gets to regulate all this. There are a lot of ways to evaluate credentials. I mean, you can get a record We have the registered apprenticeship program now run by the Department of Labor. Program is recognized. If you're a graduate of a registered apprenticeship program, it's high quality because it got registered and it's nationally recognized. Now, you can get that through, I guess, you can get a credential by graduating from a recognized institution or a skills certificate from a recognized institution. You can take a test. You can be licensed by a government agency or evaluated by some credentialed reviewer. We've heard employers writing stuff into the into the LER, but I'm a little concerned that they may not be qualified to evaluate, particularly when you toss in subjective requirements. What kind of process would there be to get this national recognition so that everybody knows what you have on your resume?

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

So thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. I don't think we're talking about a national recognition. We're talking about a national system that allows information in an LER to be openly and securely shared across different users of that system. System. So it could be that an individual can share their information in their LER with a next educator, with a next employer, or whoever else they choose to. So it's not a national recognition, it's a national system.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

If there's not a national recognition, this isn't much more than just digitizing your resume.

Mr. Scott CheneySPEAKER_05

Well, I'm trying to be careful in using recognition because I don't want that to be conveyed back to Representative Grothman question about, is this governmentally approved kind of situation. But we do need a national system where we have the ability to know that information is being shared securely about the validated skills that you have.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

Well, Mr. Kaplan, we have these pilot programs in Utah and Alabama. Do they recognize each other's work?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

I can't speak specifically to Utah and Alabama, but I would say that, from what I know, it's a challenge to move a credential issued in one state and have it be identical to a credential issued in another state.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

If you don't have— if you don't have a system that does that, what are we talking about?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Well, that's what we're encouraging to be created here, is that

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

something akin to the registered apprenticeship program where the Department of Labor would be in control and would designate—would set the standards?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

We're talking about a decentralized distributed infrastructure that would allow people to move information within the LER about their skills and competencies anywhere they go. Think of it more like ATMs or credit cards. So what we're talking about here is that you have all these different issuers of, let's say, credit cards, call that an LER, and all these different recipients of credit cards, say LERs, and we want to make it really simple for all that movement to occur.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

If you don't know what somebody's credential is, I'm not sure how valuable it would be. We've heard, I think the gentleman from Missouri mentioned, a lot of employers are less interested in specific skills and more interested in soft skills like showing up on time, following directions, critical thinking, working with others. How does all this convey those kinds of skills?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

I think, again, we want to be able to allow people themselves to assert that they have skills in in those kinds of areas. When you're talking about the soft-skills areas, in fact, there are a lot of organizations that provide recognition for having those soft skills. When I worked at IBM, we got recognition for things that we did collaboratively or collectively that that we were good at selling. So, as an example, I I have a certificate in selling. Okay And so that's sort of a soft skill, right?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

If I may, Congressman, on this point, I think there's a, there's, there's a key consideration here, which is I think I understand where you're going with the registered nature of things. Degrees out of institutions are registered and they're valid, if you will, but not all of those have credibility and readiness actually attached to them in the marketplace. So I think it's a combination of both the effects of ensuring that there are those that can verify and validate competencies or skills they're awarded But you also have to have the market's influence there because not all of those credentials are actually valued or credible in the marketplace. They're not relevant to the jobs that are needed. And so I think the notion of a digital learning record and skill record here is to effectively signal that says, for the job that you require, the skills and competencies necessary in that, I can signal to you that I have had those verified. They're not self-declared. They've actually been verified by the institution where I demonstrated demonstrated that competency or I certified it, so then it becomes credible in the marketplace in that way.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you so much. Appreciate that. I'd like now to recognize my friend from North Carolina, Mr. Harris.

Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank all of you on the panel for being a part of this today and your expertise, and I apologize for being in and out, but other committee meetings required. The most important political issue of today is how to ensure that our economy works for everyday Americans, not against them. We know that Bidenomics doesn't work, and under President Trump, this Republican Congress is working. We're building an economy that unleashes opportunity for everyone. For too long, I'm convinced that Washington has been pushing a one-size-fits-all idea that every young person has got to follow the same path, chase the same degree, or travel the same road just to find a job. But that's not the American way, and our nation was built by men and women whose skill, grit, God-given talent created the greatest engine of prosperity that the world has ever seen. Reading your testimonies coming in here, today's hearing, obviously, the Learning and Employment Records, or LERs, is premised upon the idea that there's a better way to communicate what an job applicant is capable of rather than just sharing a resume. It's rooted in the idea that focusing on a person's skills and using technology can fix a problem that both employees and employers have in today's job market. So, Mr. Kaplan, if you may, because we have to be able to explain this back to our constituents back home, from an employer's perspective, what problem in the hiring process were LERs actually designed to solve?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

The primary problem that they were designed to solve is to provide the employer much more granular information about an individual and the skills that they have that they could verify and have confidence so that they would make a decision on it. And so this provides efficiency into the talent marketplace and talent management system. Another important part of it from an employer perspective is to open up the aperture for the kind of candidates who would be qualified for their jobs so that they can look at the entire continuum of people, whether they have a college degree, whether they were in the military, whether they've collected experience in their own lives, and be able to present that in a way that an employer can recognize it and match it to jobs. And finally, it was also meant to encourage employers themselves to understand the skills and competencies people need to be successful in their jobs and to articulate those skills and competencies to the market and to people so that they know, if I want to try and get this job, here are the skills and competencies that I need.

Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC)SPEAKER_07

Can you give a basic example of how a human resources system or hiring platform might read a learning and employment record?

Mr. Alex KaplanSPEAKER_13

Sure. So the way it would work today is not dissimilar to what they're doing with a resume. Resume. So now pretty much an AI algorithm is receiving that resume and they're extracting out of it skills and they're matching those skills to the employer's job description. So that, that's sort of the world of it today, and it's a pretty rough cut when they do that. What we're trying to get through by moving towards validated and verified learning and employment records is that rather than trying to extract and and what's in a resume, an individual can present verified and validated information to the HR manager and recruiter so they can see that direct— they can see that direct match and they can make decisions based upon that.

Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. Mr. Pulsipher, your institution has obviously led the way on getting college students set up with LERs. What problem would you say, from a new graduate's perspective, can an LER actually solve?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think the primary thing, and we've seen this in the data of the now more than 60,000 of our students are actually utilizing, is the number one thing they're using is the career navigation capabilities that now affords them. So that now they know they have a degree or a credential, but what they don't directly know is what are all the jobs for which my particular credential with all the competencies, which ones am I already able to actually apply for because I can demonstrate the readiness. And so the benefits that they're gaining now is that they get visibility to all the roles at different employers in my specific kind of search area, me, my geolocation. Then now I can see in fact which are the ones I'm ready for. What they can also see is if I see jobs I do want but I may not yet have a complete skill match against, it also will surface to them additional learning journeys that they can take to acquire those skills. So that's the number one thing they're seeing. They're actually getting greater kind of control of their own career navigation.

Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC)SPEAKER_07

Okay. Would you say that's the most promising early outcome you've seen from WGU students using the digital skills record?

Mr. Scott PulsipherSPEAKER_03

I think on the individual side, like, that is very promising because it's giving the individual the confidence that they can now declare their competency into the workforce. Now, one of the really other promising things, it is definitely doing what you've heard here is employers are now seeing a much broader talent pool than they were seeing previously. This is to your earlier point, which is there are many individuals who possess the skills and competencies they needed, but it didn't come in the form of a degree. They're seeing a much broader talent pool.

Rep. Mark Harris (R-NC)SPEAKER_07

Excellent. Well, again, thank all of you for being here as part of that, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you. Thank you everyone for your testimony. Now I'd like to move toward our closing remarks. I'd like to now recognize Ms. Adams for her closing remarks.

Ranking Member Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_00

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and again, thank you to the witnesses for speaking with us today. Learning and employment records have the potential to open new pathways to employment for many workers who have the know-how to do the job but lack a 4-year degree. As both unemployment and the cost of living continue to rise, it's vital that we invest in new technologies and resources for Americans to achieve upward economic mobility. However, there are still many questions that need to be answered. Learning and employment records come with many hurdles to implementation, including a lack of common data standards, data privacy concerns, and low buy-in from both employers and job seekers. For learning and employment records to benefit employers and job seekers, we must comprehensively address these problems. We must also ensure that by implementing these systems that we're opening doors to opportunity and not closing them. When done right, learning and employment records could potentially uplift marginalized populations And as we continue to discuss these issues, we must take steps to further close income gaps and prioritize equity in job training and hiring. I do appreciate our conversation today. It's been certainly very helpful, and I hope that we can continue to work to provide economic opportunity to all Americans, not just the wealthy and the well-connected. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.

Chairman Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_12

Thank you so much. I tell you, I think it's important that we recognize visionaries when we have them. And I can think that back in the day of the first flight, not too many people understood the power of the Wright brothers' experiment. They had no idea that Alexander Bell's Hello, Watson would turn into this. I can say this: I do recognize what you guys represent, your entire team, your industry. It's going to be very, very exciting times. I hope that I can kind of convey that in my closing statements, but I want to thank you for thinking outside the box, collaboration that you're going through right now, and seeing what can truly happen and and allow so many people who have been lost in the past to finally get that taste of the American dream. I'm excited about being part of that process. Imagine children born today with options and choices that they'll have 18 years from now. Not only children raised in the middle class, but the 400,000 foster kids, the 11 to 12 million kids born in poverty that in the past over 80% will probably die in poverty. Your vision connected with everything else that's happened the last 10 months is going to be remarkable as we get into the next few years. Combined over the last 10 months with the Trump account, federal school choice, LERs, 18 years from now, no matter who's listening, regardless what community you lived in, what job you have, your child will have a personal Trump account with potential based on average stock value around $300,000 by the time they're 18 years old. Due to school choice passed by the Working Families Tax Cut Act, you'll be able to enroll your child in the best school and setting for them, where they'll no longer be stuck in poverty. They will be able, therefore, to be proficient in math, reading, and writing. Not only that, but they'll also be financially literate, because for the years coming up to that and years ahead, they will have their own Trump account, understanding how to get the best return on investment on their account. By the way, not counting Social Security, the personal Trump account will be worth millions by the time of people getting ready to retire. Because of LERs, AI, and parents' buy-in, little Jane and Johnny, starting around 6th and 7th grade, will start to prepare for their own career passion. With high school dual enrollment and trade certification and apprenticeships, some will leave high school ready to start a career, or some will start their own business because they've been taught about the capitalist system, about free enterprise. And those who have a passion for higher education, they'll not only take the courses necessary for their career, but due to their own financial literacy, will leave with no debt. All these scenarios of young people working smart, hard, and following their dreams will allow them to buy their first home in their 20s and start their families in their 20s. They'll be able to retire in their 40s, or 50s and 60s, possibly, if they want to. More importantly, they'll be able to enter and enjoy the middle class, which is what our country's all about. They'll appreciate our American culture, as they're taught about our history, the capitalist system, to give back, the fact that we have a God in heaven that really gave us a remarkable country, and they'll be able to teach their kids these same lessons that we're learning. This will be the American dream for our kids—not not just a few of them, but our foster kids, kids trapped in poor zip codes, kids that are experiencing the juvenile system right now that have bad or no parenting. They will grow up being great parents, being able to teach their kids because they've been educated, and be able to pass on that idea of hope and opportunity. So I want to thank you. This is a game changer. I don't know if everybody else gets it yet. I had a chance to—last little message. I had a chance about 4 years ago to sit down with Nick Saban. He came to talk to a bunch of us about NIL, and he talked about how they look for talent. He said they actually can identify a young man in the seventh grade. By the time he gets to eleventh grade, they can offer him a scholarship. And the reason why is because they're communicating with this young man. This young man, first of all, knows Alabama or Miami can offer, and therefore he's willing to do whatever it takes because that's his passion. It's not work. It's enjoyment for him to get to what to this place, this place of NFL opportunities, maybe the color, the culture, what it might be. And that school also recognizes this young man, their talent, that this is what we need to grow our successful team. So they're communicating. By eleventh grade, they have come to a win-win. We need to be doing the same thing with our kids: seventh, eighth grade, AI, parents' involvement, parents' understanding, great teachers. The things we're going to do the next 18 to 20 years, these kids growing up right now will be remarkable, and I'm excited to be part of that. That should be our legacy. What can we do to make sure our kids have a such remarkable, great future? And it comes down to working, confidence, middle, middle class, giving back, and saying, Thank you for this opportunity to live in this remarkable country. So, that being said, I can't thank you guys enough. Appreciate anything we can do. I love the bipartisanship that we have on this. Let us know how we can help. And with that, Um, I want to thank the witnesses again for taking the time to testify before the subcommittee today. Without objections, there being no further business, the subcommittee stands adjourned.

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Thanks.