“From Classroom to Career: Strengthening Skills Pathways Through CTE”

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

The Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education will come to order. I note that a quorum is present. Without objection, the chair is authorized to call recess. At any time. The notion that every student should go to college was perhaps well-intended, but it was never compatible with the needs of young people or of our country. While every student should have the opportunity to go to college, this is not the only path to success. Thankfully, in recent years, we've seen a renewed commitment to supporting alternate pathways, in particular career and technical education. While CTE is not new, its value has often been overlooked or dismissed in recent decades as the fallback option for students who don't fit into the traditional academic mold. Today, there is no denying its critical role in preparing the workforce for a skills-forward economy. CTE is for students who want to build, create, and lead. It is for students who learn best by doing. Over 8 million secondary school students nationwide are already participating in CTE programs. They're learning to design, weld, code, and provide life-saving care. These students gain hands-on experience that leads to good and stable jobs. And the results speak for themselves. Students who concentrate in CTE, completing more than 2 credits, graduate at rates above 90%, significantly higher than the national average. CTE participation also boosts academic achievement and even promotes college readiness in itself. More than 40 states allow students to take CTE courses through dual enrollment programs at technical or community colleges, enabling them to earn college credits in high school. This can lead to associate's degrees, bachelor's degrees, and industry-recognized credentials. And students are eager for these opportunities. 85% of recent high school graduates took at least one CTE course. CTE classrooms are filled with future engineers, healthcare professionals, business owners, and innovators. It's not a second option. It's a pathway to success in high school, higher education, and the workforce. How we prepare our students today will determine not just their future success, but our nation's economic strength. Job creators across the country are struggling to find workers who have the right skills. This present and growing gap threatens our nation's economic competitiveness. Employers are looking for candidates who demonstrate skills, not just degrees, to meet the demands of an economy with 7.2 million open jobs. In our dynamically changing economy, we must reimagine student programs to meet the demands of today's and tomorrow's labor market. And that's what CTE is all about. By design, it equips students with skills that match real job opportunities, providing pathways to immediate employment. That means fewer unfilled jobs, more career-ready graduates, and a stronger economy. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses who have built exceptional career and technical education programs and to discussing how we can strengthen and expand their work at schools across America. With that, I'll turn to the ranking member for an opening statement.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses. We've been I know we've both been looking forward to this hearing. I appreciate this hearing today where we can talk about the importance of career and technical education, which historically has had bipartisan support. But I do want to address the recent deeply troubling actions that threaten the effectiveness of CTE and longstanding bipartisan legacy. Earlier this year, President Trump kicked off his second term by signing an executive order to dismantle and close the Department of Education. As part of that effort, the executive branch used a questionable interagency agreement, an IAA, to transfer much of the administration of CTE and adult education programs from the Department of Education to the Department of Labor. Along with this, $2 billion in funding for programs under the Office of Career and Technical Education was transferred out of the Education Department to the Department of Labor. Just yesterday, the department announced six new interagency agreements to move more critical education programs to the Departments of Labor, Interior, Health and Human Services. This is not routine. The consequences of this agreement will be far-reaching. It's also part of a broader effort to shut down the Department of Education without the consent of Congress. We should all be concerned about the destructive message of shutting down the Department of Education. What does that say about our country? Scattering programs and resources across offices that aren't equipped to administer them will hurt students and schools. And I want to make clear today that we must fight to reclaim our Article I responsibility and conduct oversight over the administration to reverse this irresponsible decision. Moving the administration of CTE to the Department of Labor is a mistake for many reasons. First, CTE is more than job training or short-term job placement. It helps students, many of them as early as middle school, explore careers, build skills, and prepare for higher education or long-term careers in high-demand fields. That kind of lifelong learning pipeline can't be built or maintained without staff who have spent their careers crafting educational pathways, not just administering workforce training grants, which is also important, but a different task. Offloading these programs to an agency that lacks that background is a disservice to our children, to the future. And it also violates the Perkins Act, which I worked with several of my colleagues here today to reauthorize in 2018 when it was signed into law by President Trump. Second, these programs are objectively worse off now that they've been moved to the Department of Labor. Under the Department of Education, the programs were aligned with academic standards, focused on long-term success, and embedded into the education ecosystem at the state and local level. The Department of Labor's job training programs, by contrast, are often short-term, disconnected from education systems, and focused on immediate employment rather than sustained learning. This shift risks turning CTE into the type of narrow vocational training we worked for decades to move away from. We support it, but not it's not the same as CTE, where students, often from low-income families or communities of color, were tracked into limited job paths with little room for upward mobility. Ironically, the transfer of these programs from Education to the Department of Labor has created more bureaucratic inefficiencies, not reduced them. States, school districts, and institutes of higher education are now forced to navigate two different agencies to access one program. We've heard stories from states who are spending all their time learning a new grant management system instead of doing what they should be doing, which is innovating. Delays in grant processing and decision-making are already being reported, and we've only begun to see the fallout. It's pretty chaotic. And third, the innovation we've seen in CTE over the past decade is now at risk. And that progress was made possible because states had the flexibility to tailor programs to meet the needs of their students and local economies. But this new hyperpartisan shift, driven not by educational best practices, but by ideology, threatens to stifle innovation. A bipartisan success story is now being drawn into a federal bureaucratic tug-of-war, placing unnecessary hurdles in front of states that were leading the way in expanding access and improving outcomes, including my home state of Oregon. I want to emphasize, career and technical education works. It works because it's education-driven. It works because it was crafted in a bipartisan manner and in partnership with educators, employers, and communities. And it works because it's the kind of engaging, hands-on, problem-solving learning that engages students. And it works because we had career professionals in the Department of Education who understood the difference between preparing students for the future and just placing them in a job. I wish we could spend the whole hearing discussing the exciting innovations in CTE that states like my home state of Oregon are leading. My state's made CTE a priority. We've seen absenteeism decrease. We've seen graduation rates increase. I've toured amazing programs, including a culinary arts program at Lincoln High School in Portland, a fish hatchery management program at Warrenton High School on the coast, health sciences in Hillsboro, and a program in Sherwood, Oregon, where students actually design, build, and then sell a home. These have provided incredible opportunities for students to learn collaboration, critical thinking, communication, responsibility. But unfortunately, this administration is dragging us into another partisan fight. Just look at the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which laid the groundwork for this illegal move of moving the program and shutting down the Department of Education. So we can't afford to let CTE be undermined. Congress must reject this transfer, restore the programs at the Department of Education where they belong, and guarantee that any future changes go through the proper legislative channels, not through backdoor bureaucratic maneuvers. Our goal should be to improve and innovate CTE. This isn't just a matter of process. It's protecting learning for millions of learners. And I do, Mr. Chairman, as I yield back, want to introduce a few pieces for the record about some of the work that Oregon has done. There's a report from Stand for Children on how Oregon's Measure 98, which prioritized career and technical education, resulted in significant growth in student achievement and graduation rates; second, a piece from the Oregon Capital Chronicle celebrating the 97.7% high school graduation rate of students enrolled in two or more CTE classes last year in 2024; and an article from the Portland Business Journal on how Portland Community College is investing in CTE and partnering with industry to develop high-quality course offerings. So thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the witnesses' testimony, and with that, I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I know that some of our colleagues who are not permanent members of this subcommittee may be joining us at today's hearing. I'll now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Dr. Deb Volzer, the Vice President for Workforce Development at SME in Worthington, Ohio. Our second witness is Mrs. Kristi Rice, a cybersecurity teacher at Spotsylvania High School in Spotsylvania, Virginia. Our third witness is Mr. Braden Goetz, a senior policy advisor at the Center on Education & Labor at New America here in Washington, D.C. And our fourth witness is Mrs. Nicole Gasper, the CEO of the West Michigan Aviation Academy in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We thank the witnesses for being here today, and we look forward to your testimony. Pursuant to committee rules, I would ask that you each limit your oral presentation to a 3-minute summary of your written statement. As committee members have many questions for you, the clock will count down from 3 minutes. However, pursuant to Committee Rule 8(d) and committee practice, we will not cut off your testimony until you reach the 5-minute mark. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility to provide accurate information to the subcommittee. I will first recognize Dr. Volzer for your testimony.

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

Thank you, Chairman Kiley and Ranking Member Bonamici, and distinguished members of the committee. I truly thank you for the opportunity to speak on this critical issue today. I'm representing SME, the national nonprofit with nearly 100 years of experience in building manufacturing talent and accelerating advanced technology adoption. We have trained millions of incumbent workers, inspired hundreds of thousands of students, and work daily with employers, educators, workforce agencies, and community partners across our country, from small businesses to Fortune 500s. What truly sets SME apart is our dual perspective. We are not only at the table shaping national strategy, we are inside the four walls of industry every single day. This connection gives us real-time insight into what manufacturers need now and how to deliver scalable, high-impact training solutions that meet our manufacturers' needs. Our manufacturers are giving us a stark warning: their workforce is aging, their skills gap is widening, and too few young people are entering the manufacturing workforce. This is the reality facing our country, and the stakes could not be higher. We are not facing a future workforce problem; we are facing a future workforce crisis. And while investing in K-12 is essential, it's simply not enough. As such, we urge Congress and state leaders to expand access to modern, industry-connected CTE programs in every community to equip the next generation for high-wage, high-tech manufacturing careers. SME's Education Foundation PRIME program is active in over 118 high schools across 25 states, and through a four-year pathway, students gain hands-on experience working with industrial equipment and software, leading to the acquisition of industry-relevant skills. We support this pipeline with teacher training, sustainability funding, and award over $1 million annually in scholarships. The strength of SME's education and training relies on our direct industry engagement. We know firsthand that when this vital connection is not there, it weakens or breaks down, students risk learning outdated skills on outdated equipment with outdated processes that no longer meet the evolving demands of modern manufacturing. SME's PRIME program is solving this issue at scale. And while SME PRIME and other programs can train the next generation of talent, we cannot overlook one of the most underrecognized challenges in workforce development: the shortage of qualified instructors. Without instructors, programs stall, learners wait, skill development slows, and our nation's manufacturing capabilities weaken. SME is actively addressing this challenge through our Maritime Manufacturing Workforce Pipeline. This program is designed to meet critical shipbuilding needs across the Gulf Coast and INDOPACOM regions, and by integrating K-12 and postsecondary pathways in alignment to industry competencies in a cohesive K-20 model, we are building short, mid, and long-term solutions to support both current and future workforce demands. And finally, I would be remiss if I did not clearly state that technology is transforming manufacturing at an unprecedented pace, from automation and data analytics to advanced robotics and artificial intelligence. To keep up, our workforce and training programs need continuous alignment, requiring deep industry engagement. In closing, as mentioned, the stakes have never been higher, and we are facing a defining moment for U.S. manufacturing. A strong, skilled, and future-ready workforce is not just an economic asset; it is a strategic necessity. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this critical issue, and please know that SME will continue to innovate, collaborate, and lead the adoption of technology while building talent to leverage that technology to preserve our global manufacturing might. I look forward to your questions.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much. Mrs. Rice, you're now recognized for your testimony.

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Good afternoon, Chairman Kiley and Ranking Member Bonamici and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Kristi Rice, and I teach cybersecurity at Spotsylvania High School, a rural high school in Spotsylvania, Virginia. Despite our rural setting, we have built one of the most dynamic and successful cybersecurity programs in the Commonwealth, if not the nation. I teach a three-level pathway and coach the award-winning Cyber Knights. In my classroom, I like to think outside the box. Instead of only lecturing about threats and defenses, my students learn through hands-on, gamified activities like capture the flag competitions. They solve real-world challenges in cryptography, forensics, and network defense. As a coach for the U.S. Cyber Team, I bring back elite-level strategies from international competition and adapt them for high school students, showing them that cybersecurity is not just a class, but a pathway to national service and high-demand careers. I also push my students to get outside the box, literally. My students have toured the Pentagon, visited FBI headquarters, presented at the White House Quad Cyber Challenge, and attended cybersecurity conferences and networking events. For many of our rural students, these are the first experiences that help them see themselves as future professionals protecting critical systems and infrastructure. Some of these students are here today. To expand access, I founded the Virginia High School Cyber Cup, a hands-on cybersecurity competition hosted by the Virginia and U.S. Cyber Range Cloud CTF platform. I also co-founded the Cyber Circuit. It's a virtual cybersecurity club that includes students whose schools don't yet offer cybersecurity or who are homeschooled. These efforts ensure that any student anywhere in Virginia can step into the cybersecurity world. Innovation in CTE must also support our educators. Through the GenCyber Teacher Program with Virginia Tech and the University of North Georgia, I help prepare new teachers to teach cybersecurity in their first year. And in my role as a Career Kickstart facilitator and pilot teacher for the College Board's AP Cybersecurity course, I support educators nationwide on building a high-quality pathway. The impact is clear. Six of my former students have earned the DOD SMART Scholarship. Many now work with federal agencies and in industry. A high percentage of my students graduate with the CompTIA Security+, and we have seen a strong increase in female participation. What's at stake is our national security and our economic future. If we don't connect classroom to career in fields like cybersecurity, we risk falling behind in both talent and readiness. When we invest in educators, empower our students, and create pathways that connect classroom to real-world challenges, we don't just prepare students for jobs, we prepare them to protect and lead in the digital frontier. Thank you for your time today.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much. Mr. Goetz, you're recognized for your testimony.

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Good afternoon, Chairman Kiley, Ranking Member Bonamici, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify. As you mentioned, I'm a senior policy advisor in the Center on Education & Labor at New America. My written testimony highlights some CTE innovations and talks about some recommendations for Perkins reauthorization. But I think the best use of my time is to first thank you for your past support of CTE, and then to appeal to you to help us return Perkins to the Department of Education. Before New America, I worked for 26 years for the Department of Education, most of that time in the Office of Career, Technical, and Adult Education, or OCTAE. When I joined Ed, CTE, then known as vocational education, was not well-regarded. It was on the margins of public education, an undemanding alternative that taught a narrow set of skills for specific jobs that were, many of which were low-wage. Since that time, CTE leaders and policymakers like yourselves have transformed vocational education. It is now CTE now prepares students with durable skills for college and career. The transfer of Perkins to the Department of Labor threatens that progress. Operationally, it is a muddle because Perkins Perkins is very clear that the Secretary of Education is the only one who can make policy decisions. What Ed has done is transferred the implementation of her decisions to DOL. So, they sent over a team of OCTAE employees who report to a DOL career official, who report to a policymaking official, who, on up through the chain of command, to the Secretary of Labor. I don't understand how the work gets done. When Secretary McMahon makes a decision, does she call the Secretary of Labor and ask her to communicate that down the chain? And what happens if the OCTAE employees at the bottom of the chain have questions or they have other other issues they need policy decisions on? Do they communicate that back up the chain and the two secretaries talk? It's also confusing and inefficient. DOL also does not have expertise in Ed regulations, like charter school funding. North Dakota just passed a new charter school law. They're going to be coming to the Department of Labor asking for help in understanding Ed's regulations for charter schools. Good luck to them. Also troubling are the implications for ensuring that all students have equal access and opportunities to succeed in CTE. Since 1979, state Perkins agencies have been responsible for proactive civil rights monitoring. It's also known as Methods of Administration. The department has not clarified what happened to those responsibilities and who's helping them with them. And some states have been struggling to get access to their money. Yesterday, I was surprised to hear the department put out a fact sheet that said that 35 grantees had accessed their Perkins money since the transfer. Well, there are more than 35 Perkins grantees and it's been 2 months. It's been very difficult for states. There are 57 grantees, including D.C., Puerto Rico, outlying areas, Virgin Islands, but only 35 have access. And for all of this, from what I understand, Ed is paying DOL $200,000 per quarter. That's a lot of money to pay for something you can do yourself. Of course, you could address all of these problems and simply amend Perkins and move it to DOL, but that would be a mistake. CTE is fundamentally an education program. It is not job training. DOL's training programs serve an important function by helping adults who are out of work find work quickly. The most common programs are in ground transportation, like truck driving, and nursing occupations that require less than an associate's degree. Many of them pay less than the median wage. That is not the orientation or the result we want for high school CTE programs. We need to be building long-term pathways to prosperous futures for every student, not steering them into the next available job regardless of its quality. Moving Perkins also puts DOL— puts the federal government out of step with the states. CTE is universally regarded as a CTE program by states. 47 states and the District of Columbia run Perkins out of a K-12 agency or higher ed agency. Locating Perkins at DOL threatens to remarginalize CTE. We have made so much progress. Please do not let Secretary McMahon take us back. Thank you.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much, and Mrs. Gasper, you're recognized for your testimony.

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Chairman Kiley and Ranking Member Bonamici and members of the committee, thank you so much for the opportunity to share with you what we get to do with and for our families at the West Michigan Aviation Academy. We are a public charter high school located at the Gerald R. Ford International Airport in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where we get the privilege of serving just over 600 students in grades 9 through 12. We are heavily focused on aviation, as our name indicates, but also heavy STEM, and the piece that really sets us apart is our professional culture. At the academy, career and tech ed is key to what we get to do for our young people. It's critical to our mission. We get to create meaningful talent pipelines. And over the 15 years, we've demonstrated that by having just under 200 high school seniors earn their private pilot's licenses by the time they've graduated. We've also had 27 of our students earn their Part 107 commercial drone licenses. Both of them are portable credentials that our young people get to walk out of our high school with. Our robotics team has found themselves multiple times on the world stage down in Texas, and we've also had a state-recognized Science Olympiad team. Our students currently in our Build-A-Plane course, we've not only built a Carbon Cub EX-2 that was deemed airworthy, that we sold to replenish the project, but now our students are refurbishing a 1975 Bellanca Scout and a 2-33 Schweizer glider, both of which are real-world skills. Additionally, to give you a picture of our school, we have 6% of our graduates, on average, choosing military service. So, while that's not specifically CTE, it does show an additional pathway, and that is three times the national average of young people graduating going into the military. These accomplishments address our workforce needs. We know the global demand in the aviation sector is great. We're looking at a need of over 600,000 pilots and technicians over the next decade and additionally 15,000 over the next couple of years for the domestic pilot shortage. Our mission, vision, and values guide every decision we make at the academy, and we believe that excellence truly begins with both connection and upholding high expectations. Every student is paired with a trusted adult where we get to uphold clear and high standards. For example, we don't issue D's. Our students get to earn A, B, C, or F. Our students get to earn 26 credits to graduate for their high school diploma, where the state of Michigan requires 18. Our students also get the opportunity to give 100 hours of community service as part of their diploma from the academy, along with a required job-shadowing opportunity. Because we're located at an airport, you can imagine the unique opportunities that get to come our way. We believe that students need a lot of exposure during their formative years, and so that is a key element of our academy. Students have access to our direct flight line. We also have access to the airport public safety, and we have an incredible amount of guests that get to visit our students to share different career opportunities within the aviation and engineering sectors. We've even had students test for landmines with a partner at the airport as well. However, these partnerships extend beyond the airport. We have our wonderful charter authorizer, Grand Valley State University, who also, along with other postsecondaries, give our students dual credit for the CTE programs in which they participate. All of our aviation programs are state-certified in CTE. Additionally, we've also taken the lead in the state of Michigan in working with other partners to help develop the CTE standards for aviation general and professional pilot programs. I'm very proud to say that 66% of our juniors and seniors are involved in CTE at our academy. My hope today is that I can share the West Michigan Aviation Academy with you as a national model that can show what is possible when you have business and industry, private partnerships, and public education coming together for the central mission of serving our young people. It truly does create a pathway to career for our young people as they get to experience all that's in front of them. Again, thank you so much for the opportunity. I look forward to your questions.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much. Under Committee Rule 9, we'll now question witnesses under the 5-minute rule, and I'll first recognize myself for 5 minutes. And I just want to thank all our witnesses. Really inspiring testimony. I think a big part of what we do on this subcommittee, apart from the policy levers we have, is to showcase just truly tremendous examples of what's going on at school districts across the country. And as Mrs. Gasper just said, what you're doing, what all of you are doing really provides a national model that I hope can be a source of inspiration in, in every state. So I do want to just briefly address off the top this issue of the interagency agreements and the Perkins program. And so, Mr. Goetz, you raised a number of criticisms of this, and the ranking member as well, and I don't want to dismiss that. I want to really try to understand it. I think there's probably room for debate whether the chain of authority that you described is exactly as you described it. Certainly, if there are issues accessing the grants, that's something that needs to get worked out quickly. But as far as sort of your broader critique, the problem, as you describe it, seems to be that, well, DOL is going to have to talk to the Education Department, then they're going to have to call each other back and forth. But kind of the entire premise of CTE programs is we want to have this connection and coordination between schools and in industry, right? So, so what's wrong with sort of recapitulating that or mirroring that in terms of fostering greater coordination between the Department of Education and DOL? Well, I think in

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

past administrations we've had a lot of close coordination between the two departments, including in Mr. Trump's first term. They met constantly, and we were often collaborating on issues where we intersect. Registered apprenticeship is an example of that. In Mr. Trump's first term, the department put out a guide to aligning CTE with apprenticeship. In Mr. Biden's term, we put out a memo about registered apprenticeship being an allowable use of Perkins funds. So we have had that collaboration and cooperation. We don't need to do it through an interagency agreement where we transfer the entire program over to another another agency.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

All right. Well, thank you, Dr. Volzer. Thank you very much for your testimony. And The point you made that I think is really important is just the way things are changing so fast in the workplace right now when it comes to AI and robotics and everything else, that you need to sort of have that perspective like in real time in order to have your programs really be serving the needs of our workforce. I guess the challenge is that because things are changing so rapidly, what students learn in CTE programs may quickly, you know, become not applicable to the workforce. As it exists 1, 2, 3, 5 years from now. Now, they'll be gaining additional skills once they're in the workforce. But that seems to me like the fundamental challenge is how do we structure these programs in an era where we know that students, once they graduate from them, are going to be in a rapidly evolving workforce?

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

Thank you for your question. And I think that really is where it comes down to deep integration with local industry and alignment to education. Not only how the programs are designed, but making sure that the skills that are being taught in those classrooms are directly applicable inside the four walls of industry. One of the things that the SME PRIME program does specifically is we do a a significant amount of research into the industries, the equipment that's being used, the processes that are being used, the new technologies that are being integrated, and make sure that that same exact equipment is inside the walls of the high school so that when they step into that, they are productive day one. They are continuing to learn, and in fact, they're bringing innovation. That is what the next generation of learners— it's not just about the technical skills, it's not just about the academic skills, it's not just about those workplace-ready skills. It's the innovation that the next generation is bringing because they are comfortable with technologies. And that is what is inspiring the next adoption of technologies inside our our classrooms. And so I would say, to me, this is while you look at national systemic issues of— and we really have to pay attention to our small- to medium-sized manufacturers. They often can't step outside their four walls to really engage with academic education leaders. We have to make sure that we're reaching inside those four walls so that we can align and make sure there is that continuous education and skill-ready development.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Very well said. Thank you. And I guess that sort of capacity to adapt and innovate within a particular domain is itself sort of the core skill set in many cases that you're trying to teach. Mrs. Rice, just very quickly, I was very excited to read your and hear your testimony. I know that we've had big shortages when it comes to cybersecurity, and so I wanted to just ask a little bit more about the pathway, because I think a lot of people think that, well, cybersecurity is just kind of an offshoot of software engineering or some other field. Not true at all, right? So, what is sort of the distinct nature of your pathway and the needs that it fills?

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

My pathway, cybersecurity, there's a huge skills gap, and there's currently over 600,000 jobs that are open right now across the nation. And personally, in my pathway in Virginia, we have a three-course pathway including we have an intro class, we have a networking class, and then we have a more advanced class. And it gets the kids prepared for the Security+ and the Net+.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much. I'll now recognize the ranking member.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses. Wonderful testimony, all of you. Appreciate it. And I want to follow up on the chairman's question about the pace of change. Mr. Goetz, you said in your written testimony that job training is not CTE, and CTE is not job training. In fact, you cited an article from 1986 in which experts recommended abandoning rote, entry-level job training and reforming what was then called vocational education, as you explained, to integrate academics, teach teamwork, critical thinking skills. And here's a quote from your testimony: "prepare young people for a working life of continual learning, problem solving, and communicating." And I couldn't agree more. And I submit that's even more critical today than it was in 1986. With the pace of change, things are very different than they were in 1986. There were no computers in classrooms in 1986, students didn't have cell phones, we didn't have AI. It's a different world. And preparing students for the jobs of the future is not the same because we don't know what the jobs of the future will look like. It's very different. And CTE is important and beneficial because, as I mentioned, it's typically this hands-on, project-based learning. And when you look at the 21st-century job skills—collaboration, critical thinking, communication, confidence, creativity—those are skills that matter no matter what path someone takes, or no matter what job someone goes into. So we need to strengthen this and realize why CTE is important, and it's not what this administration is doing. They're kind of stuck, I think, back in 1986 when it's 2025. So, Mr. Goetz, the statutory requirements for Perkins program include academic achievement measures, alignment with postsecondary programs of study, support services that are embedded in educational institutions, and then transitions between secondary and postsecondary education. These are all elements that presume administration in an education-focused agency, as you mentioned. So is it correct that 77% of states implement CTE through their state education agency—that's K-12—14% through postsecondary education, and 6% through standalone CTE agencies?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

That's correct.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

sound right? So will those state entities be better served by the Department of Education or by the Department of Labor?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

by the Department of Education, with whom they've had a relationship for many years.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

and and the staff at the Department of Education who were accustomed to this work. And and also, Mr. Goetz, we've heard reports that the transfer of funding and administration has already caused some serious problems, as you mentioned. At least four states have reported they could not access Perkins formula grant funding during the transition period when OCTAE attempted to move grantees from Education's payment to the DOL's payment management system. And some states have reported delays in receiving their payee account numbers needed to access their formula Perkins funding, and other states have had challenges getting bank accounts to even be recognized by the new payment system. Other requirements like wet signatures, all these things are creating significant challenges in accessing formula dollars since the transition was initiated. And all of this suggests the transition from the Department of Education to the Department of Labor has failed. So could all of this have been avoided if the Perkins formula grants were still administered by the Department of Education?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Absolutely. They've made it harder to get Perkins funds than it is to get a mortgage.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

And I want to emphasize, too, that this committee has worked hard on the Workforce Innovation Opportunity Act and other workforce programs. And those are important. I'm not minimizing those, but they're not the same as educational programs, such as the CTE programs that are mentioned. And we heard some great examples today. I think they're wonderful. There are so many industry partnerships that are happening. But again, the focus needs to be on career and technical education. It's not career and technical job training. And it's even more critical with CTE at middle schools and high schools. Again, we don't know what the jobs will look like. So Dr. Volzer, Mrs. Rice, and Ms. Gasper, do you agree with Mr. Goetz that career and technical education is education? Anybody disagree with that? Go ahead. Anybody Do you all agree that it is an educational program, career and technical education, is more of an educational program than a job training program? Go ahead, Dr. Volzer. I'm almost out of time, so go ahead.

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

Sorry. I think it is— you can't separate the two. Education to align with skills that secure sustainable, thriving, waged occupations should be the goal of education. Building a well-rounded individual is absolutely critical when we talk about work readiness. Force-ready skills, it is those critical thinking, problem-solving.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

And quickly, and maybe in one sentence, your thoughts on the education aspects of CTE, Mrs. Rice and Mrs. Gasper, because I'm out of time. Maybe one sentence.

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

I think when we, when we look at what we get to do through career and tech ed, it's really determined at our local level in terms of the educational component piece.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

Thank you. I really am out of time. I'll yield back. Thank you.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. I will now recognize the chair of the full committee, Mr. Walberg.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for this this hearing. And thank you for the panel being here. I'm tempted to ask how many of you educators that are here at the table noticed anything negative coming from the 7-week shutdown by my Democrat colleagues in the Senate when the Department of Education was shut down for 7 weeks. I won't ask that question. I'd also say thank you to my colleague from Oregon for showing us what a state can do in CTE. Amazing things by itself, the state doing the work, knowing what they need in their own state of Oregon. And I think the same is true in Michigan, in Virginia, and the students here in the room can attest to that as well. Dr. Volzer, you work closely with industry partners. You've said that. What strategies, best strategies, have you shown to work and be effective for sustaining employer participation in your CTE programs?

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

And again, as I said at the beginning, when we look at developing out these programs, we're looking at locally what the needs are for those industry partners, what equipment, what skills, and what future technologies are being integrated into that environment, into that local, so that we can best support those local entities. But that grows beyond that. What employers are finding is understanding demand signals and working closely with their education partners to ensure that those— not only those programs align, but the duration, the durability of those programs aligned to the demand signals of their industry. So those are some of the things that we look at. Once they also do the evaluation at the end to ensure that what is produced through our education systems is aligned to the needs and not only just immediate needs of employment, but securing that continuous education that ensures that our industries, you know, grow with the economic needs of our nation.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_12

So key, that continuous understanding of its continuous education for a lifetime, but being up close and personal, as you've said, customizing what fits with business and industry. Thank you so much. Ms. Rice, how do you incorporate artificial intelligence tools specifically into cybersecurity education, and what guidance or resources do teachers need to do that responsibly? That human moral touch on AI.

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Thank you for the question. Integrating artificial intelligence in my class is essential. So first, I, I use AI for hands-on learning, for hands-on problem solving with my students with capture the flag activities. So we will first use it to AI-assisted analysis, um, of challenges, whether they review a log or decode patterns. And then I push them to validate those results as well to make sure that they're doing that manually so they're not just depending on that AI analysis. I also create AI phishing emails or have them evaluate deepfakes. But it's important by letting them see AI from an adversary's perspective, they develop a deeper understanding why ethical decision-making, bias awareness, and human oversight is as important as technical skills. We use it more as a tool so that the students can understand it, evaluate, and use it thoughtfully. I also use AI in my classroom to personalize learning, especially in a rural school. We have a lot of kids that want to take my class that might feel like they're intimidated by it because their learning level is not where it needs to be. So I will use it for differentiation, and it helps make complex concepts like scripting and digital forensics and malware analysis

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Um,

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

for many of them, it makes it feel more— cybersecurity is more accessible.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_12

Well, thank you. Thank you. May you continue to succeed on that. Ms. Gasper, I had the opportunity of touring your school and wishing that it was in my district. I can't have everything good in Michigan in my district, but I'm glad you're there. Could you tell us a little more about the school? I would assume most of the students are from upwardly bound home settings, high incomes, and all of the rest. Is that true?

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Actually, that's not true. So that is one of the—

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_12

I set you up for that one.

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Thank you for that. That is one of the biggest misunderstandings, actually, being a public charter high school in Michigan. We serve every type of child, and we accept all children that apply. Unfortunately, or fortunately, however you want to look at it, we have more student applications than spots available. And so last year, as an example, we had double the amount of freshman applications than the spots available. So while that's a blessing, it's also unfortunate that we can't serve every child.

Full Committee Chairman Tim Walberg (R-MI)SPEAKER_12

It's working. We'll push for choice, more choice. So thank you. I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Lee of Pennsylvania is recognized.

Rep. Summer Lee (D-PA)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Republicans can't simultaneously hold a hearing about how to strengthen students' skills through career and technical education while also allowing this administration to dismantle the sole agency tasked with expanding these same students' educational opportunities and protecting their civil rights. In May, the Department of Education transferred the Office of Career, Technical, and Adult Education's programs to the Department of Labor. Yesterday, we found out that the Trump administration plans to transfer many more of the Department of Education's core programs to four completely different agencies, flouting congressional authorization to effectively dismantle the department and abandon public education. This has been a key part of the administration's authoritarian playbook from day one. One thing history makes clear is that we will not successfully strengthen career and technical education if we don't have a body that is invested in its equity. We value all career paths, whether it's a trade or working in the arts, a career in science, they're all important. But we also can't ignore that vocational education was conceived as a tool of segregation to track students, particularly of color, into training programs for jobs that were then deemed undervalued, that are physically intensive, that lower life expectancies, while reserving what people deemed prestigious academics for wealthy white students. Even within career and technical education today, white students are more likely to have access to manufacturing and information technology pathways, while Black and brown students are placed in classes for now devalued professions like hospitality or tourism. One of the reasons the Department of Education exists is to help states and schools address these educational inequities. This is literally one of the reasons why Congress tasked the Department of Education with administering Perkins and other career and technical education programs. Mr. Goetz, aside from the fact that it's a direct attempt to dismantle the Department of Education without congressional approval, will transferring the administration of Perkins to the Department of Labor exacerbate segregated pathways that disproportionately track students of color into undervalued careers?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Well, as I mentioned, methods of administration is a proactive civil rights monitoring that state Perkins agencies are supposed to be doing to address some of the issues that you're talking about. We have no idea where those responsibilities lie now with this the change that they've done in the IAA

Rep. Summer Lee (D-PA)SPEAKER_00

So the Department of Labor is not equipped to handle issues of educational equity. It's not equipped to primarily handle issues of education at all. We've also already seen the DOL's level of investment in equitable in equitable access to job training when they tried to eliminate Job Corps this past spring. Now, the Pittsburgh Job Corps has long been a beacon of opportunity for young folk in my district, especially disenfranchised young people, Black and brown and low-income young people. And after seeing what the DOL tried to take away from them, why should we have faith that they'll treat Perkins any differently? Republicans also love to reframe the removal of equitable education opportunities as an expansion of choice. So when we see an increased focus on choosing career and technical education, we need to be asking what it might be replacing. Placing For example, we're seeing more instances where financial literacy classes fulfill a social studies requirement. Mr. Goetz, if career and technical education is administered by the Department of Labor, will it be more difficult to ensure that all young people have access to a holistic, well-rounded education that can include academics, arts, STEM, and career and technical training and education?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

I'm very concerned that we will lower academic expectations for students in career and technical education if it remains at the Department of Labor.

Rep. Summer Lee (D-PA)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. As the wealthiest nation on Earth, we should be able to offer holistic education to all children. A robust career and technical education shouldn't come at the expense of foundational academics. Students need and deserve both, and we can't let an administration that doesn't value education pit one against the other. Any hearings about how to strengthen federal education programs while this administration is actively dismantling the Department of Education are a waste of students', families', and educators' time. We should be focused on what we plan to do to keep the department and its programs intact. I thank you all for your time, and I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Representative Messmer of Indiana is recognized.

Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Ms. Gasper, you've worked in both regional service agencies and CTE development. What can we do to help share innovative CTE models between states?

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question. I think really it comes down to what do the communities need, and so focusing there should be be our first goal. In addition to that, once we see in terms of place-based what's needed, then being able to leverage partners. So for example, the partnerships that we've been able to leverage have been able to come about because we've been so clear about our mission, vision, and values and what we need in order to serve our young people. So in addition to that, once you have that clarity, then partners can decide how they fit into that mission. I also think it's important to think about the mutual partnerships. When you have career and tech ed in public schools, and then you have business and industry partners, what are the mutual benefits to both? For example, we have a tenant that leases space from us, which is incredibly unique. So as a public school, we have a private business named Mayday Avionics. It's an avionics company that leases space for— from us so that they can— the importance of that is that our students can actually see real business and industry, be able to work on aircraft while our young people are sitting in the classrooms looking through the glass walls. So in terms of looking at partnerships, it's really about being clear about what the community needs and then being able to solidify those partnerships.

Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN)SPEAKER_14

Okay. Thank you. What can Congress do to help take away the stigma of students wanting to choose vocational careers versus traditional 4-year degree careers and elevate the value of high, high-demand, high-pay technical careers?

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

I think it's what you're doing right now. It's being able to showcase successful models for others to be able to learn from. So, for example, I've been in public education my entire career of 30 years. Being at the Academy has tremendously renewed my faith in public education because so many of the barriers to innovation have been removed. We have— it starts with— well, let me just backtrack. It's all about the people, right? It's being able to come together with a group of people who are passionate, and willing and able to focus around a single mission, vision, and set of values. And so coming out of— coming to a public charter school where you have an appointed board who is solely there to serve that mission is very different. It allows the school leader like myself and the leadership team to be able to focus on the important work every day for our young people. Additionally, I think if we can showcase these models, which we do, we have tours coming in all the time. We have people fly in from different states. We have other school leaders visit us and say, how can we do what you're doing? How can you scale? How can we duplicate? It comes down to it's about the people. It's about finding that single mission. What is it you're trying to accomplish? And then taking away all the what-ifs, taking away the excuses of why we can't do this with and for our families. So I appreciate that we're being showcased, not, not we as in the academy, but we as in these are models for others to be able to learn from.

Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN)SPEAKER_14

Thank you. Mrs. Rice, what's being done in your field in the K-12 space to scale up programs like yours in Virginia?

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Can you repeat that?

Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN)SPEAKER_14

Oh, yeah. What are you able to do to help scale up the programs you're doing across Virginia and in cybersecurity to other parts of the country? Anything?

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

I showcase what I do and I get my students out there doing things. And by just talking about what I'm doing in the classroom and what I'm doing outside of the classroom with my students really helps showcase what we're doing. We also bring awareness. We have a great initiative in Virginia, the Virginia Cyber Range, which is a cloud-hosted virtual environment that all our schools can use to practice these cybersecurity skills in a safe environment. So, but just talking about what we're doing in Virginia and sharing it across the nation, and helping other educators do what I'm doing in their state.

Rep. Mark Messmer (R-IN)SPEAKER_14

Yep. Thank you for your responses, and I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Representative Mannion of New York is recognized.

Rep. John Mannion (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today. I'm very excited about this subject of today's hearing because career and technical education is expanding rapidly in Central New York, and we have a great history of innovation and technology in the region that has served this country well, this country well, and made us a leader around the world, a legacy that we must continue by an investment in our public schools and our higher education institutions. With the growth of major industries like advanced manufacturing and semiconductor chip manufacturing, our region has launched transformative CTE initiatives, including an advanced technology framework that's being piloted across 10 of our local school districts. This unique program will provide hundreds of students annually with a curriculum focused on real-world skills and meeting the employment demands of our local employers and future employers. These hundreds of students have a curriculum that's focused on real-world skills, experimental learning, and this includes our newly opened regional STEAM school, the first of its kind, a countywide school drawing 60% of its students from the Syracuse City School District and the remaining students from the rest of the county. Unique, innovative programs exist at this school and were designed by many of our local employers. Additionally, our five high schools in the Syracuse City School District have unique technology programs. The city of Syracuse is one of the most impoverished cities in the country, so my concern is around Title I funds, making sure that we meet the needs of that school district and provide continuing pathways out of poverty for our students in these high-demand fields. Additionally, the state of New York, the governor has created a program which I supported called Reconnect New York, where individuals that are pursuing a second career between the ages of 25 and 55, pursuing a career in a high-demand field, can attend community colleges without any cost. I'm confident that these initiatives will serve as national models for career and technical education. Certainly, it shows that it is possible that when states, education, employers, labor unions all have a seat at the table, great things happen. And this is just the beginning. As our partnerships deepen, there'll be more opportunities for work-based learning, union-endorsed apprenticeship programs, and other models that create pathways to high-quality jobs. As I said before, my concern is that in shifting the Perkins program out of the Department of Education and concerns about making sure that these funds go to impoverished communities as they are intended for, that a Hunger Games is not created and rubrics are not created for funding to states, that states like New York that have a commitment to civil rights will be left behind and will fall short on that rubric. We have seen this in other programs in this administration. So with that in mind, my question is for Mr. Goetz. Given the momentum behind these regional partnerships and the demand for skilled talent, what are the most effective models that you've found of work-based learning and youth apprenticeship programs and adult apprenticeship programs at high school or community colleges level, especially in fast-growing sectors like advanced manufacturing, the skilled trades, healthcare, and others? So what are the most effective models?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Well, let me answer your question first of all by saying the best way to promote more work-based learning opportunities in this country is to make sure that every school district has a Perkins allocation that's large enough to support a work-based learning coordinator. That's going to take a bigger investment, but it's about time that we did that. Everyone is polarized about a lot of things, but not CTE. Now is the time to increase funding for Perkins. In answer to your question about models, there's a great program in Surry, at Surry Community College in rural northern North Carolina. They've created for young people a CTE dual enrollment program in health. Young people complete by high school graduation a certified nurse assistant credential, then they go on and they enter at Surry Community College a registered apprenticeship that is combined with a nursing degree program. They are getting—and because the state of North Carolina waives tuition for apprenticeships, they're getting a free ride, a nursing degree, getting paid while they do it. It's an outstanding program and we need more of them.

Rep. John Mannion (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Goetz. I appreciate it. I yield back, Mr. Chair.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Moylan of Guam is recognized.

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of our career trade education programs is run by our Guam Trades Academy, or Guam Contractors Association, our Trades Academy. And they recognize our Emerging Leaders Committee, our young professionals under 40, and they conduct regular outreach programs with the middle schools and high schools. And how they how they attract our our young kids is through two main events: one in spring, it's called Pizza, Pop, and Power Tools, it's aimed at encouraging girls and women to enter the trades; and then in the fall, we have Construction Warriors, that's aimed at recruiting both boys and men and girls and women to enter construction careers. Now, the Trades Academy was developed around also working adults, and it works very well for high schoolers because they treat them like adults. And because the academy is developed around people also without diplomas, also works well with people who speak English as a secondary language. So our Trades Academy has a partnership also with our Guam Department of Education. And as a pilot program, they're assisting troubled students to go through the Trades Academy. And students must finish their certification and their high school diploma. These troubled students, 11 out of 12 of them graduate, and one on the honor roll, and despite entering the program with poor attendance records and grades. So the Guam Trades Academy annual evening classes, high school integrates into the adult classes, and its goal is to earn credentials, to get employed above the minimum wage, and to graduate high school. So those high school students who graduate had jobs right out of school. And the Trades Academy has been successful in getting females into construction as well. The National Center for Construction Education and Research serves as the basis for the Guam Trades Academy and GDOE programs, and it's highly successful. Right now, we have 362 people in this class in the Trades Academy, and recently we started a welding program, which cost a lot of money, and building up also a diesel mechanic class. The Guam Trades Academy is also looking into starting up a fiber optics and elevator repairs, too. And the Trades Academy is working with Alaska, Hawaii, and an Army base in Korea. So the bottom line for our Guam Trades Academy and states and territories is need for more authority and latitude in determining spending for CTE programs, because they are closer to the problem. And Trades Academy at times doesn't pursue funding, because there's just too many strings attached to that. So first question is for Dr. Volzer. Manufacturing remains a significant effect affected by skill gaps. And we have a a new manufacturing company on Guam, also. I helped cut the ribbon just the other month. It's called Applied Science & Technology Research Organization, or ASTRO. It's a 3D additive manufacturer. And so, Dr. Volzer, could you elaborate on how industries identify regional workforce needs and aligns them with local training programs?

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

Thank you for your question, and congratulations on the ribbon cutting of that exciting industry. One of the things that we do, and I'm going to speak specifically to a program that SME has launched, and it has launched nationally, and that is called the Manufacturing Imperative Workforce Pipeline Challenge. We are working with 25 colleges across 17 states. And when you talk about scaling and finding out best practices and sharing those, we're doing it in multiple ways, and I promise I'm going to get to your question. One of the things, as I've said, that we do is that we really look at industry needs currently, industry demands, future demands for that area, and we look at the demography of that area. Who is inside the classroom? Who is not inside the classroom? And how do we make sure that we are supporting the local economy by making sure everyone has accessible opportunities to gain the skills needed to enter into living-wage occupations? We do this also as well by these presidents across these 25 institutions, community colleges, meet quarterly, and they engage in addressing the questions of what are the policies, what are the funding barriers that are preventing them from doing what they set out to do, which is educate their communities with the right skills to secure living-wage jobs. From that also, we integrate with the manufacturing associations so that we understand what the needs are from a state perspective. On top of that, we bring in SME's national perspective. What do we know industry needs? What are they adopting? How do we help integrate that? So, we are looking nationally, and we are catalyzing locally. We are understanding locally, and we are scaling nationally. And so, those are some of the efforts that we do, Congressman, to make sure that when we enter in and understand the needs of industry, not just immediate, but it's industry, but it's also what are the needs of the demography that are going to be working inside those four walls? What are the best programs? What are the skills gaps? What are the job trajectories for those individuals to continue to sustain that employment there, grow the economy, and bring more industry to those communities?

Rep. James Moylan (R-GU)SPEAKER_07

Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'm looking forward to the CTA programs having more authority. Thank you.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Representative Adams of North Carolina is recognized.

Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Before I get to my questions, I do want to take a moment to address a crisis facing my district. Over the weekend, the Trump administration deployed Customs and Border Patrol agents to Charlotte, North Carolina, arriving in unmarked cars without badges, dressed in body armor, wielding assault rifles, and they actually terrorized our community. Many of my law-abiding constituents, regardless of their immigration status, were afraid to go to church, work, and even school because of the language they speak or the color of their skin. One of my constituents, a U.S. citizen, had his car window bashed out, dragged onto the street, pinned down, and put in handcuffs, even though he is a U.S. citizen. This is disgusting behavior and, frankly, un-American. But this mass deportation agenda is not only a moral crisis for our country; it's also an education crisis for our students and our teachers. On Monday morning, almost 27,000 Charlotte-Mecklenburg students were absent from school. That's 21% of the entire student population afraid to use their constitutionally protected right to a high-quality public education because of the Trump administration's campaign of terror. If this many students were missing school for any other reason, I'm sure that this committee would be coming together to hold a hearing. I think it's shameful that we're not doing that. Another dangerous action that was announced just recently yesterday by the Trump administration is a plan to eliminate the Department of Education without the consent of Congress using the Economy Act, which is unprecedented. It's shameful that we— my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are unwilling to assert congressional authority here. Mr. Goetz, during your 20 years of service at the Department of Education, what experience did you have with interagency interagency agreements, and have you seen any interagency agreement used at such a large scale, and do you think the agreements announced yesterday are lawful?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

I've never seen anything like this. It's unprecedented, and when I first saw it and read it, I thought, well, that's why the Secretary fired all the lawyers in the department.

Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_01

Listen, moving these programs to agencies without experience in education policy will lead to worse outcomes for our students. I'm sure you agree with that. In July, the Trump administration moved management of the Perkins Career and Technical Education to the Department of Labor. You mentioned in your testimony that there are inefficiencies with how this administration is implementing the Perkins CTE program. Essentially, you've got two agencies working on one program. So can you highlight for us some examples where this redundancy is creating obstacles for grantees, and specifically, how has this transfer of administration and funds made it more difficult for the states?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Well, we still have states struggling to get access to their funds after 2 months after this transfer happened. I watched the 1-hour webinar that explained in the 75-slide presentation all the things you have to do to get access to your money. I don't understand why the Department of Education, which has had a relationship with these state agencies for what, decades, couldn't have transferred their information over to this new contractor. Why are we putting people through this?

Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_01

Well, listen, I have that same question. Well, do you think that grantees with fewer resources, like HBCUs, applying for Augustus Hawkins grants will have an even harder time navigating the Trump administration's new framework? What do you think about that?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Well, I'm very concerned about the people that worked on the Hawkins program and to make sure that they continue to stay working on the Hawkins program. I'm not sure about their fate, but those are experts that really help applicants devise good applications and make good use of the funds.

Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_01

Wow. So one of the important facets of a quality apprenticeship program like registered apprenticeship programs is the embedded quality standards, like the minimum hours of on-the-job training and classroom instruction. So do you have any recommendations on how to expand access to registered apprenticeships to historically disenfranchised groups?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

I sure do. Last year, the House and the Senate agreed on a WIOA conference, a WIOA a reauthorization bill that included a $65 million youth apprenticeship readiness grant program. I hope that gets revived in this Congress. Other things that we can do is better articulate CTE with apprenticeship. Right now, we don't really talk about apprenticeship in the Perkins Act. And if we— I think things like let's challenge districts to align their upper-level CTE programs with the related instruction in apprenticeship. Let's create a dual enrollment program for apprenticeship where young people can get credit and get advanced standing in an apprenticeship after leaving high school.

Rep. Alma Adams (D-NC)SPEAKER_01

Thank you, sir. And Mr. Chair, I yield back. I'm out of time. Thank you.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Representative Owens of Utah is recognized.

Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_09

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, thank you guys for being here. I love to see innovation. It was so well needed, and I'm glad we're at that space where we're embracing it big time. Our children are the most precious resources we have, and we want them to live the best of their lives, and CTE helps make this possible by giving our students the opportunity to experiment with careers before graduating from high school so they are more knowledgeable of their own interests and aptitudes. CTE also offers students a chance to build tangible, practical skills for use in life, in the workforce, and workplace. In Utah, for instance, Jordan School District has used CTE to change lives. Students enrolled in CTE courses at Jordan have a higher graduation rate than the general population of students. In addition, Jordan has provided over 16,000 credentials of value and 10,000 credits for students that will serve them as they continue their education and development. Furthermore, 6 out of 10 students plan to pursue a career related to CTE coursework they have done. These lives have been changed forever for the better, and I believe that Jordan School District and their hardworking CTE teachers deserve recognition and thanks for the impact they're making. So with that, I'd like to start my questioning. I want to, first of all, direct my first question to Dr. Volzer, Mrs. Rice, and Mrs. Gasper. We keep hearing my colleagues, my Democratic colleagues, about the strong disapproval of interagency agreements signed between the Department of Education and the Department of Labor. I'm trying to get a sense of whether there's anything to this noise that they're making. You are the innovators. You're out there making these things happen. You're on the ground in classrooms developing programs, creating critical partnerships, and reporting strong outcomes. Would each of you like to please answer this: does interagency agreements at all affect your programming, your work, or your outcomes? I want to start off with Dr. Volzer.

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

I want to start by saying, uh, nearly 100 years ago, 33 tooling engineers came together to do something bigger than themselves, knowing that our nation required us to do more. I think opportunities to collaborate, to innovate but to ensure that funding is still, uh, you know, maintained, uh, for these programs is critical to our nation.

Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_09

Thank you.

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Thank you for the question. Um, as a classroom educator, my focus— my focus is delivering the highest quality learning experience for my students regardless of where funding is administered. Uh, what matters most, um, to me is that CTE programs will continue to receive stable, consistent support so that students have access to tools and technology and opportunities that they need. I will continue to advocate for strong resources, industry alignment, and hands-on learning, but my, my commitment is to maintaining the quality of my cybersecurity program remains the same.

Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_09

Okay, thank you.

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Similar to what they just said. My primary focus is on ensuring that we have excellence across all of our programs, including our CTE programs. It sure would be nice if we could see some continued innovation at the federal level. I'm not someone who tries to predict what will happen and live in fear, but instead I try to embrace the opportunity to see what type of new innovation can come out of it. So I would also like to not have to fight for every dollar that we get. So having more control locally would be amazing.

Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_09

More control locally is coming your way, and so is innovation. I just want to say this real quickly. I'm reading here Google, Biden interagency agreements use it extensively for offshore wind energy and to allow the states to combine their plans with Perkins V. So just know this is not something new, and I tell you, the fact that we're talking, innovating, figuring out how to do it better is just the way it should always be. Ms. Rice, you helped design Virginia's cybersecurity pathway. What mechanisms should school districts have in place to ensure that curriculum standards align with industry certificates, certifications, and employment needs?

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Um, thank you for the question.

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Um,

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

aligning yourself with industry partners. I know something in Virginia we actually just did this last week is we just reviewed and rewrote our competencies for our cybersecurity course. We do that every 3 to 5 years based on the course, and we have higher education in the room, we have industry partners in the room, and we have other high school teachers. So we just make sure that it's always updated and fresh.

Rep. Burgess Owens (R-UT)SPEAKER_09

Thank you. I just want to say thank you again for innovators. Well overdue. If we don't innovate, we die. So thank you. We're going to make— they're going to make this a great future for our kids. So appreciate that. Thank you. I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Representative Hayes of Connecticut is recognized.

Rep. Jahana Hayes (D-CT)SPEAKER_06

Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses for being here. Before I begin, I would like to address a question that the chair of the full committee asked and none of you had an answer for. Just to give it a little context, he asked, How did the federal government shutdown affect school districts? and then followed up by saying it didn't. That is absolutely not true. School districts do not operate budgets on a week-to-week basis. So much of the Title I funds and the IDEA funds that support our special education students had already been disbursed over the summer, so schools were already operating with that. Many school districts, especially Title I districts that rely heavily on federal funding, saw delays in reimbursements for meal programs for their free and reduce— their students with free and reduced lunches, and they had to direct funds from other places. We saw around the country Head Start programs that experienced closures or temporarily reduced services. Again, Title I districts saw a halting of federal grant-making opportunities and technical assistance to support them with those grants as they plan for the next year. I can tell you that my friends at the Department of Defense Education Activities, which is DoDEA, our military schools, worked for several weeks without being paid, and many of their extracurricular activities were halted. They still showed up, so the students didn't feel the impact, but if you ask them if there was any direct effect from the federal government, I'm sure that their answer would be different. And I think the thing that is most important and incredibly egregious is a constituent of mine who has a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights for a transition program for her severely disabled son, who will be graduating soon and she needs to make sure that his supports are in place as he transitions, and she lost weeks of getting an answer, or at least a meeting or a decision so that her son can transition out of high school. So, for our most impacted students in our most vulnerable school districts, if you ask them if there is any impact, for those teachers working in those communities and those administrators trying to plan for the next year, they absolutely felt the effect of the last several weeks. I'm glad we're having this hearing today, but I also understand that this hearing is yet another example to try to make the case for why we do not need a Department of Education. The decision by this administration to cut CTE programs is deeply troubling for me, and I know that the Department of Labor excels at directing federal funds to short-term job training programs. But Ms. Rice, I listened to your testimony, and you talked about these programs as being a first experience, exploration, career development. Those are all things that educators do. I know this because I am an educator, if you can't tell already, but a person who has a cybersecurity background could not educate your students in the way that you did, in the way that you do, could not align that work to the standards, could not make sure that they're exploring and having a club and different opportunities. Ms. Gasper, you talked about many of your students, the percentage that go on to the military. In my school, every student enrolled in a Perkins program also took the ASVAB test, the practice test and the actual test, and their guidance counselors aligned them with the classes to make sure that if they didn't pass it the first time, they would pass it on their subsequent attempts. All of those things happen in schools. And there should be conversation and collaboration between business and the workplace, but teaching is a profession, and it is different. And just because someone runs a business doesn't mean that they can teach young people to love a career or have opportunities to explore, to fail and try again. So, I have a lot of questions, but I already know the answer to many of these questions, so a lot of this is rhetorical for me. What we should be doing on this committee is finding ways to match teachers with partners in the business world so that they can bring that real-life experience in real time to keep them updated. But we would be hard-pressed to think that someone who runs a successful business could stand in front of a classroom of high school students and transfer that knowledge and allow those kids to grasp that information. So, Ms. Rice, I really appreciate what you said about you don't care where the money comes from, you just want to make sure it's there and available for kids. But I hope you hold firmly to the last part of CTE, and that is the education part, and our kids deserve that aspect. My time is up. I have no questions.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

The ranking member of the full committee, Representative Scott of Virginia, is recognized.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I got to Congress, I was involved in legislation involving job training and CTE. And one of the things about CTE that was we focused on was the fact that we're not helping a student if we just give them a skill but not the basic education. And that job they're trained for may become obsolete, and if they have no background in basic education, they would not have been well served. So let me ask all of the witnesses whether or not CTE is in addition to the basic education or instead of the basic education. Ms. Gasper, you want to start?

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Sure, I would say it's in addition to the basic education, and I think—

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

That's good.

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

Pardon?

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Mr. Goetz.

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Absolutely. It should be something in addition to a strong, rigorous academic education.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Ms. Rice.

Mrs. Kristi RiceSPEAKER_03

Yes, I agree with Deb. It's an addition.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

It was

Dr. Deb VolzerSPEAKER_04

the 3 components that ensure a CTE program is effective is academic, technical, and employability skills.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Okay. And Ms. Gasper, do your students get a waiver on anything about the basics, the number of basic courses that have to be taken for graduation?

Mrs. Nicole GasperSPEAKER_05

No, sir.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Okay. Mr. Goetz, you heard the question about interagency agreements. Have you heard any Have you heard of anything like what's happening in education in terms of interagency agreements

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

No, we used interagency agreements to transfer funds to support an evaluation contract at another agency, or because our contracting agency was backed up and we needed to use the contracting agency of another agency. Those are the things that we use IAAs for. We don't transfer entire programs across the federal government.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

And Mr. Goetz, can you tell me what— one of the problems with the old-time CTEs is students got tracked. We were advised when I was doing job training that you shouldn't track people. If a student decides later in life like junior or senior year that they actually want to go to college, they should not be so deeply tracked that that is not a good choice, that's not an available choice. Can you tell, um, the dangers of tracking students in the future in a CTE course that does not include the basics?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Sure. We want every young person to be prepared for further learning after high school, regardless of what they choose to do. That's an important component of Perkins. You were a leader in making sure Perkins focused on academic expectations for young people. That I lost the question I'm .

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

sorry. Well, tracking.

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Oh, tracking. Tracking. Well, I think we need to make sure that in 9th grade, young people have exposure to all careers. Real opportunities to try them out, and then they make a choice in high school where they want to go, but they always have a choice— opportunity to change their mind. And so they have the academics that they can do whatever they want in their lives.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

And so CTE, like I said, is in addition to the basics, the number of math courses, English courses, and everything else?

Mr. Braden GoetzSPEAKER_13

Absolutely.

Full Committee Ranking Member Bobby Scott (D-VA)SPEAKER_10

Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

I'll now recognize Ranking Member Bonamici for her closing remarks.

Ranking Member Suzanne Bonamici (D-OR)SPEAKER_11

Thank you. Thank you very much to the witnesses. I think it's been an excellent discussion, and I don't think there's any question that we all agree on the importance of career and technical education. That is clear. There is a difference in looking at career and technical education as education or looking at it as job training. I think we need to continue that conversation. I also want to note the full committee chairman, Mr. Walberg, talked about complimented Oregon, which I appreciate very much, and I just want to note that Oregon runs its CTE programs through our Higher Education Coordinating Commission that works with the Department of Education. Our workforce programs are run apprenticeships are run through our Bureau of Labor & Industries. But workforce and career and technical education are education. And I know from listening to the testimony today, especially Mr. Goetz, with your years of experience at the Department of Education, that the decision to transfer career and technical education programs from the Department of Education to the Department of Labor was not made with students or educators or communities in mind. It's part of a political agenda of eliminating the Department of Education. And that to me is incredibly disappointing when the people with expertise are losing their jobs and the expertise is not there anymore. What was once a cohesive education-rooted system designed to support lifelong learning is now being fractured between these two agencies, one that the administration wants to eliminate, and the two agencies have different missions and different capabilities. And as I said in my opening statement, CTE is not simply about job training or placement. It's about building pathways for students from middle school through postsecondary education and teaching them skills they can take into meaningful careers. And that work demands experienced educators and robust academic alignment. Deep coordination with local communities is something that the Department of Education has long provided. We're already seeing the consequences: delayed grants, disjointed program administration, the erosion of trust from those on the ground trying to implement the programs. And I do want to note as well that Perkins doesn't set curriculum. That is done at the local level. There's a suggestion that Perkins or the federal government is setting curriculum. We don't do that. That is up to the states and localities. And I think you could see by the testimony today that it is local decision-making. The Perkins dollars help. They help with equipment. They help with the funding. And let's not forget the broader context that this move is part of this, as I said, the strategy to dismantle the Department of Education, and that's part of the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, is deeply concerning. This is not about job numbers or job training. If we care about student opportunity, if we care about educating students of today to fill all of the jobs of tomorrow, we cannot allow this misguided transfer to stand. We should restore these programs at the Department of Education and require that future changes go through Congress, not through political back channels. So, Mr. Chairman, I sincerely hope that we can work together to strengthen CTE programs, but especially I hope we can work together to counter this unprecedented power grab by the executive branch. This is not a decision that the executive branch can make on its own, but it's trying to. Congress needs to have a say. And I hope we can continue to talk about the harmful effects that dismantling the Department of Education will have on today's children and future generations. So I again appreciate all of your testimony and the great work that you're doing, and I look forward to further conversations. And I yield back the balance of my time.

Rep. Kevin Kiley (I-CA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you very much to our witnesses. I think this has been a great hearing. It's been really inspiring to learn more about the incredible work that you're doing and the exciting educational opportunities you're providing for young people that put them on a path to fulfilling careers and provide a tremendous asset to our country. And thanks as well to the young people who are here as tremendous models. I look forward to meeting you guys here after the hearing, and thanks for coming to D.C. I also want to thank the members of the committee on both sides. While we are not always in total and complete harmony on every aspect of education policy, I am really encouraged that there is a substantial bipartisan support for CTE. I think that for a while the pendulum swung way too far towards this mantra of college for all, but now it's starting to swing back. We have tremendous momentum for CTE across the country, and we need to do everything we can here to keep that going. It's more important than ever now. Without objection, there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned.