An Inside Job: How NGOs Facilitated the Biden Border Crisis

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The Committee on Homeland Security will come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare the committee in recess at any point. Before we begin, I want to start off by expressing the condolences of this committee to the people of the great state of Texas, who have been devastated by recent tragic flooding. I know this hits especially hard to the home of several of our colleagues who call Texas home. Our thoughts and our prayers are with the victims of this flooding and their families. We are grateful for the courageous efforts of the Coast Guard, CBP, and many other first responders and volunteers who have placed themselves in harm's way to rescue those caught in the flooding. These American heroes, like Coast Guard swimmer Scott Ruskin, saved countless lives through their bravery, and they deserve our nation's gratitude and honor. This committee will continue to do everything we can to ensure the victims receive the assistance they need, and that the federal agencies are prepared to help in times of trouble. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the role that taxpayer-supported non-governmental agencies played in facilitating the border crisis under the Biden-Harris administration. I now recognize myself for a brief opening statement. For 4 years, the Biden-Harris administration created the worst border crisis in American history. From day one, Biden-Harris and the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas implemented a policy of mass catch-and-release, dismantling effective border policies and gutted interior enforcement. As a result, roughly 13 million inadmissible aliens were either encountered at our border or entered as gotaways. The consequences of these acts have been devastating. Thousands of Americans were lost to fentanyl poisoning. Gang members wreaked havoc in local communities. Young women like Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray, and Rachel Morin were raped, abused, and murdered at the hands of illegal aliens. This committee led the way by impeaching Secretary Mayorkas for his willful and systematic refusal to enforce longstanding immigration law, laws passed and amended over the years by bipartisan majorities in Congress. The American people also emphatically rejected the open-border policies at the ballot box last November. What is not known by many, and what will be highlighted today at this hearing, is that the Biden-Harris administration could not have executed an open-door border policy on its own. They needed help, and that help came from non-governmental agencies funded by the federal government. These groups that received billions in taxpayer funding would prove instrumental in helping the Biden-Harris administration process and release a historic number of illegal aliens into our country. Under a DHS program called the Emergency Food and Shelter Humanitarian Program, EFSP-H, which later became the Shelter and Services Program, FEMA provided grants to numerous NGOs, many of whom were operating at the southwest border. These groups spent billions of taxpayers' dollars given to them by the Biden-Harris administration to provide all types of benefits to illegal aliens, those individuals who were recently released from DHS custody DHS custody. Our taxpayer dollars were spent on purchasing tens of thousands of nights in hotel rooms for illegal aliens instead of using existing ICE detention facilities to house those detained individuals. The Biden-Harris administration sent taxpayer dollars to NGOs to put them in hotels at the cost, again, of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of those contracts, in many cases without any ICE supervision. Even worse, our taxpayer dollars were used to form the final link in the cartels' human smuggling operation, paying to help illegal aliens travel to their preferred destinations: Chicago, New York, Miami, Los Angeles, or other destinations of choice. Jansen Owen, then the chief of the Border Patrol Del Rio Sector, told the committee in an official interview, ICE would then turn over illegal aliens over to NGOs for them to travel to wherever they were going to go while awaiting their hearing. Recent studies have shown that illegal aliens who passed through the doors of these NGOs at the border ended up in effectively every congressional district across the country. Many of the NGOs served as a launching pad for mass illegal immigration. The abuse was so widespread that even the Biden-Harris administration, the NGOs themselves, couldn't deny what was happening. In June 2022, when DHS officials said that the department will continue to closely coordinate with and support NGOs to facilitate the movement of any individual encountered at the southwest border, John Martin with the Opportunity Center for the Homeless, an NGO in El Paso, said that his organization works with illegal aliens to, quote, "facilitate travel to destinations of their choice," end quote. These actions appear to many on the committee to constitute a violation of Section 274 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which prohibits any individual from encouraging or inducing someone to enter the country unlawfully or helping transport them to the interior. Corruption and waste were rampant in the spending by the NGOs. Under the Biden-Harris administration, DHS's top watchdog audited millions of dollars that had gone to local grant recipients over a six-month period in 2021. They found that a lack of documentation kept them from determining how more than half the money had been spent. In some cases, they discovered that funds had been used to pay for benefits for individuals who were legally inadmissible to receive them. The Biden border crisis proved to be a profitable business for some NGOs. According to the Free Press, three large NGOs involved in handling unaccompanied alien children—Global Refuge, who received 85% of its revenue from governmental grants; Endeavors, who received 97% of their revenue from governmental grants; and Southwest Key Programs, who received an astonishing 99% of its revenue from the federal government—these three groups saw their combined revenue grow to an astonishing $2 billion-plus by 2022. I would argue that these groups had a vested interest in prolonging the crisis. One NGO, Southwest Key Programs, used the increase in government funding to raise salaries of officers and officials across the board, including, according to recent media reporting, an increase of over $675,000 increase to their CEO. Many NGOs tried to mislead the public in how these funds were being allocated. This was documented by a recent Florida grand jury investigation. In that investigation, the grand jury said that they were actively obstructed. They were obstructed from determining how these federal dollars were spent. The grand jury also noted that some NGOs received the vast majority of their federal funding from grants—or the vast majority of their funding from federal grants. Pretty interesting for groups that like to call themselves nongovernmental organizations. The American people are tired of being told that we should fund the actions of lawbreakers. They are tired of groups encouraging people to cross the border illegally and organizations that facilitate the release of illegal aliens into the interior. When would-be border crossers know that they will receive a host of benefits that await them immediately after crossing the border, they are more likely to make the deadly and dangerous journey. That's exactly what happened under the Biden-Harris watch, as millions of vulnerable people put themselves in harm's way at the hands of cartels and smuggling groups. An untold number perished along the route. Tens of thousands of more suffered physical and sexual abuse on the way, and many are still trapped today paying off their cartel debt through forced labor or working in the sex trade. We can and should look for ways to care for the vulnerable and less fortunate, but using taxpayer dollars to undermine our laws and the well-being of Americans and migrants alike is not the way to do it. We cannot let taxpayer dollars be used to facilitate lawbreaking. And we must shine a light on this disgraceful step as we begin to hold these organizations accountable. This cannot, on our watch, ever be allowed to happen again. With that, I would like to recognize the ranking member and my friend from my home state of Mississippi, Mr. Thompson, for his opening statement.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, also, to this hearing, and I look forward to the information we get. But before we begin, I want to express my heartfelt condolences to the families of those who lost lives in the tragic Texas flooding on Independence Day. Our thoughts and prayers are with them. Also, I want to say that we had a smaller flood. Nonetheless, we lost lives in New Mexico, and we want to acknowledge that also. Mr. Chairman, my Republican colleagues and the Trump administration are waging a war on faith and civil society in the United States. That is the real inside job. So let's talk about it. Faith-based service and civic associations bring Americans together in pursuit of the greater good, and that threatens Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans because they believe their political strength lies in driving wedges between people. In their pursuit of political power, Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans are ripping apart the fabric of what makes America great: our freedom to believe, to practice our faith, and to associate in civic organizations that help us in our pursuit of happiness. Donald Trump started his second term by attacking religious organizations, and he's not rested since. On the first day in office, Donald Trump paused foreign assistance for the needy, harming the work of faith-based religious agencies. On his second day in office, Donald Trump decided that deportation forces could begin entering houses of worship to arrest migrants. After a week in office, Donald Trump's OMB attempted to freeze federal grants, including the Nonprofit Security Grant Program, which helped houses of worship protect themselves from violence. Republicans on this committee appear to want that— want in on that action. Just read the Republicans' press release about their vindictive investigation of American charities and this sham hearing. Republicans falsely accuse Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran, Methodist, evangelical, Muslim, and secular charities that feed, clothe, and aid the needy of having, quote, "supercharged the business model of cartels," end quote. That is a slanderous accusation and fringe conspiracy theories with no basis in reality. Republicans sent out 215 letters falsely accusing organizations of wrongdoing, even though most of the organizations don't receive federal dollars or provide direct services to migrants. This is a scare tactic, plain and simple. Republicans' so-called investigation and today's hearing are shameful abuses of congressional power to bully people for how they choose to exercise their religion and help their fellow man. It's an attack on diverse faith-based organizations over their religious practices and is a threat to charities that do humanitarian work Republicans do not like. It does not surprise me that the chairman of this committee, Mark Green, is absent for his last full committee hearing before retiring to Guyana. I, too, would be embarrassed if I had to sign off on this hearing. What does surprise me is that my good friend Michael Guest, my colleague from Mississippi, a proud Sunday school teacher, is chairing a hearing that attacks Christianity and bullies private citizens over what they choose to do in lawful service in their communities. But that is the damage done Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans have done to our country and to the Republican Party. Republicans don't want to investigate who's really running things at DHS while Kristi Noem is filming all her commercials. They don't want to investigate what Donald Trump is hiding by restricting Congress's access to classified files. They don't want to investigate why the Trump administration deported sick American kids. And they don't want to investigate how thousands of calls from flood survivors in Texas went unanswered by FEMA. Instead, committee Republicans are attacking charities and religious organizations for providing food, clothing, and shelter to people in need. Let me be clear: Republicans have voted for years across multiple presidential administrations to fund humanitarian programs that provide food, shelter, basic medical care, and transportation for migrants. That includes 10 Republican members of this committee, including every single Republican currently running to be the next chairman. Now, suddenly, they have a problem with a program they supported, and they need a distraction. I might add, the program they're criticizing actually came about under the Trump administration, and somehow we say this is a Biden program, but it was created when Donald Trump was president. Well, let me say, it's shameful that Republicans on this committee are scapegoating charities and churches that help the needy just because some of the needy happen to be migrants. It's hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle are attacking programs they authorized and funded. It's pitiful that Republicans would violate Americans' First Amendment rights to freedom of religion and association just to distract from Kristi Noem's failed natural disaster response, Donald Trump's illegal and cruel treatment of migrants, and this administration's weaponization of DHS. If committee Republicans truly wanted to oversee how DHS used the funding they supported to help local governments and charities would provide essential services to migrants, they would have invited FEMA here to testify, since it administers the Emergency Food and Shelter Program. On that point, let me say, we've been here since January 20th. We've had one administration witness come before this committee, one, and that was the FEMA administrator. We haven't seen anybody else in the third-largest government agency. Republicans would have invited Customs and Border Protection to testify, since CBP worked with FEMA to establish the Shelter and Services Program. Or Republicans would have invited Secretary Noem to testify, since the funding Republicans have questioned about flowed through DHS. Somehow Republicans forgot to ask Secretary Noem about the spending during her only appearance before this committee this year. But Republicans did none of that. Instead, they invited a private panel of witnesses to perpetuate Republican attacks against organizations that are feeding, sheltering, and helping the least of our brothers and sisters. Many on the other side purport to be Christians, but their actions today do not square with anything I learned in church. This is a shameful spectacle, Mr. Chairman, and frankly, it's un-American. In closing, I want to say a word to the organizations being targeted by the other side. I know many of you are watching today and worried that your work is being disrupted by these baseless attacks and that people are suffering as a result. Please know that those of us on this side of the aisle support your constitutional right to live out your faith and act on the courage of your convictions as citizens of this great country. Nothing could be more American than that. Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from over 600 nonprofit and nonpartisan organizations who stand in opposition to this hearing and Republican attacks on the services and advocacy they provide communities.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, it'll be admitted into the record.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. Today, we are pleased to have a highly distinguished panel of witnesses before us. I would ask that our witnesses please rise and please raise your right hand. I will administer the oath. Do each of you solemnly swear the testimony that you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. And our witnesses, thank you, and please be seated. I would now like to take a moment to formally introduce our witnesses. First, I'd like to introduce Mike Howell. Mike is the president of the Oversight Project, which has done significant work through litigation and investigation to uncover information about the Biden border crisis. He served as oversight counsel at the Department of Homeland Security under the first Trump administration and has senior experience in different oversight positions on Capitol Hill. A graduate of Duke University and Emory Law School, Howell is also a board member of the National Immigration Center for Enforcement. Second, I'd like to introduce Ally Hopper. She is a nationally recognized expert in human trafficking and the president and founder of GUARD Against Trafficking, an organization that conducts research and advocacy to counter exploitation and human trafficking. She authored Florida's landmark anti-grooming bill, now used as a model language in states across the country. She has testified before Congress on child trafficking and has delivered numerous congressional briefings on human trafficking. She conducts on-the-ground research in the United States, Mexico, Central and South America and has trained INTERPOL in South America, has trained law enforcement officers here at home, and policymakers across multiple states and countries. Last is Julio Rosas. He is an expert and a renowned national correspondent for Blaze Media. As a journalist, he has reported on the ground from the southwest border during the Biden border crisis and has covered many riots and protests across the country, notably those sparked by Antifa and the Black Lives Matter riots of 2020. Julio has previously served in the United States Marine Corps as a reserve. I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here. I would now like to recognize Mr. Howell for 5 minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Chairman Guest, members of the committee, thank you for having me here today to testify. My name is Mike Howell, and I'm the president of the Oversight Project. I'm also a visiting fellow for the Heritage Foundation and a board member at the National Immigration Center for Enforcement. I especially thank you for giving me a platform to plead with members of this body, all on the Democrat side, to stand down on their threats against the men and women of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The violence is getting out of control, and it is fueled by the demagoguery of politicians, whether it is one of your members telling Axios that there needs to be blood to grab the attention of the press and the public, another saying civility isn't working and to prepare for violence, or even a member of this committee being arrested for forcibly impeding and interfering with federal officials. This escalation deserves condemnation. It needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. Assaults against ICE officers are up over 830%, and that's a lowball estimate. There have been violent incidents in Alvarado, McAllen,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman, suspend briefly. Yes, Mr.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

So I got a point of order. Pursuant to clause 2(k)(8) of Rule XI, I raise a point of order that this testimony is outside the scope of the hearing.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I would object to that position, Mr. Chairman. That's absurd.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

I would object as

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

well. Man has a— man has a right to his 5 minutes of testimony. Clearly, the Democrats don't want to hear truth. I object to the ranking member's ridiculous position.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The point of order offered by the ranking member is not in order. This individual has the opportunity to summarize his opening statement and the information upon which he used to form that opening statement. So the objection is overruled.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, if I may, obviously I'm going to appeal the ruling of the chair and ask for a vote. But again, you know, this guy has an opinion. Mr. Chairman, wait, do you—

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

No,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

I respect

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

it. The chair has ruled that his testimony is part of the basis upon which he is briefing this committee, and it will be used to talk about his ultimate findings as it relates to the purpose of this committee. I understand your objection. The objection has been overruled. If you would like to challenge that, you are welcome to challenge that. Is the ranking member challenging the ruling of the chair?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, I challenge the ruling of the chair. Is

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

there a motion?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr.— I have a motion.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

What's that motion?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Motion to table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There is a motion to table. The gentleman has moved that the motion to table. This is privileged and non-debatable. So we will then— is there a second to the motion to table?

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

I second.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion and several seconds of the motion to table. All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No. No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

And the ruling of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is tabled.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote. As do I.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

A recorded vote has been requested. We would ask the clerk to please call the roll.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I know they're not going to like the

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Uh, the clerk will call the roll, and then once the roll is called, we will wait on additional members to arrive so that they can cast their vote. But the clerk can begin to call the roll.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there other members that wish to have their vote recorded? Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

I'd like to be recorded as an aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The clerk will report the tally.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion to table is agreed to. Any other issues that need to be taken up before Mr. Howell resumes his testimony?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Uh, Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Yes, sir. Mr.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Ryan I'd like to ask unanimous consent that Ms. Ansari from Arizona be permitted to sit with the committee and question today's witnesses.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, she will be allowed to sit and question witnesses, but not allowed to vote on any matters. Any other issues that need to be taken up? Mr. Howell, you are recognized once again to continue your summation of your opening statement.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Thank you. Reclaiming my time. The violence, obstruction, and subversion of the United States that is emanating from so-called non-governmental organizations, unwell individuals, some probably paid, and supported by the political mainstreaming of violent rhetoric from national politicians should not come as a surprise. We saw the writing on the wall during the Biden border crisis, with the sick marriage between the government and so-called non-governmental organizations facilitating illegal immigration. The reason I call these groups so-called non-governmental organizations is because they, for the most part, draw funds from the government or have a preferential tax status from the government. They are more creatures of the government than they are non-governmental. Now, the United States of America is still reeling from the consequences of the worst border invasion in history. This was an invasion that was planned, promoted, encouraged, funded, and sustained by radical elements of the previous administration. This invasion could not have been accomplished without a colossal partnership between the government and open borders organizations. Simply put, under the Biden administration's open border policies, the government could only do so much to facilitate mass illegal immigration, welcome illegal aliens into the United States, and move them around the country. The Biden administration needed help, so they drove an estimated $6 billion to a conglomerate of 15 UN agencies and over 200 nonprofits, as recently calculated by the Center for Immigration Studies, to do the open borders work for them. Now, my organization, the Oversight Project, has led the way on exposing this border industrial complex. In December of '22, we published a first-of-its-kind study tracking the cellphone movement of illegal aliens through these organizations at the border. With only a small sample size of 30,000 devices, we found that these devices went to 431 congressional districts. That's nearly everywhere in the country. In New York, we discovered a taxpayer-funded shelter providing false residency documents to illegals. In Mexico, we discovered flyers at an illegal alien staging camp encouraging illegals to remember to vote for Biden when they got in the U.S. In Arizona, we found a Mexican consulate official at an NGO advising illegals on how to lie to law enforcement and evade ICE. We have produced documentary evidence of noncitizens admitting on camera to being registered to vote in Arizona, Georgia, Minnesota, and North Carolina. This year, we obtained video evidence of an open borders organization in New York City hosting a seminar on how to evade ICE. This is the new trend: Open borders organizations are now in the obstruction of ICE business. Without the partnership and the money of the Biden administration, a blob of nonprofits, legal groups, and foot soldiers are taking to the streets to create chaos. This makes sense because the goal has always been destabilization. This destabilization is happening right here around us. Incendiary and defamatory protest rhetoric linked to the group 5051 and Flare, which is formerly the Mayday Movement, which did No Kings, which many members of this body promoted, and Party for Socialism and Liberation movements are some of the groups that are radicalizing individuals and inciting violence, and this only ends in violence. Now, the Oversight Project has asked this administration, the President Trump's administration, to stop issuing permits for peaceful protest to non-peaceful groups. People should be able to go to work in D.C. without being spat on, assaulted, or having an air horn blown into their eardrums. This happens all the time. I know firsthand. In conclusion, I'd encourage you all to think broadly about the blob of various organizations and strategies that were involved in sustaining the Biden border crisis, and also understand what is still happening today. I thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, Mr. Howell. At this time, I'd like to recognize Ms. Hopper for her five minutes to summarize her opening statement.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, and distinguished committee members, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Ali Hopper, president and co-founder of GUARD Against Trafficking, a nonprofit dedicated to combating human trafficking. As a Hispanic mother, I have held a six-year-old Colombian child in my arms, cold, dirty, and shaking, left to die at the border by the cartel. I have seen children that have crossed the border alone, holding scraps of paper with sponsor information given to them by the cartels. When I testified in November, we discussed the exploitation of children at our border. Today, countless children continue to be neglected, abused, or trafficked by a system meant to protect them. We must ask, how was this allowed to happen and what role did NGOs play? My research partner, Dr. Jared Sadolsky, and I have conducted extensive fieldwork, including interviewing incarcerated traffickers, cartel members, whistleblowers, and unaccompanied alien children themselves. An ORR field specialist had visited a home to place a 17-year-old and reported serious concerns, most notably that the adult claiming to be the child's mother was adorned in MS-13 tattoos. Despite these concerns, ORR leadership overruled that specialist. Tragically, 3 months later, that child was found dead, his pants around his ankles, with an older man passed out next to him. This heartbreaking case is not isolated. It highlights a system overwhelmed by both scale and mismanagement. Since 2008, over $20 billion has been disbursed under the UAC program, almost $14 billion of that in the last 6 years alone, meaning over two-thirds of funding was spent in just one-third of the program's lifespan. Yet despite this massive investment, hundreds of thousands of children remain unaccounted for as the U.S. tax taxpayer dollars fueled a system hijacked by criminal networks. No-bid billion-dollar contracts were awarded with little oversight, while influx facilities became transportation hubs. A striking example is Endeavors. Their IRS filings show revenues soaring from $65 million in 2019 to $1.18 billion in 2022, driven almost entirely by federal contracts. During this time, CEO Jon Allman's salary rose from $292,000 to $730,000, with six-figure executive surge bonuses added. Endeavors ended 2022 with a $112 million surplus. Andrew Lorenzen-Strait, a former Biden transition official and ICE advisor, helped secure no-bid federal contracts for Endeavors and was caught on camera calling the border crisis a boom for business. Inside Endeavors, leadership blocked critical safety protocols, resisted oversight, and silenced internal dissent. Our interviews with contracted auditors at Endeavors' Pecos, Texas facility revealed disturbing findings. Male staff had been found inside female dorm rooms. An employee had led 150 teenage girls in sexually explicit routines, dance routines, teaching them how to twerk on multiple occasions. A female over 18 had been shielded from ICE. Others nearing 18 were released early to avoid transfer to ICE, and auditors were blocked from reviewing child-sponsor placements. These abuses are not unique to Endeavors. Similar patterns existed across multiple NGOs. Federal contracts had prioritized speed over safety and rewarded output over outcomes, conditions which cartels exploited. A cartel operative in Tecate, Mexico, explained to us how children were routinely kidnapped and funneled into the U.S. for profit. Cartels infiltrated NGOs along those smuggling routes, turning humanitarian pathways into trafficking pipelines. Weak sponsor vetting worsened this problem. An HHS audit later found that 70% of sponsor applications were fraudulent, making proper post-placement welfare checks nearly impossible. Recently, we discovered about 117 unaccompanied children believed to be trafficked on a farm in the Midwest, where our intervention sparked a current investigation. These cases are emerging nationwide. Last week, ICE and CBP arrested about 361 illegal aliens at two cannabis farms in California, finding 10 unaccompanied children. So where do we go from here? This is not about politics. It's about protecting children and confronting modern-day slavery. Good intentions and humanitarian missions must never excuse harm when policies enable exploitation. Accountability and decisive action must ensure it never happens again.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, Ms. Hopper. I now recognize Mr. Rosas for 5 minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak today about this important topic. I've been covering the US-Mexico border as a reporter since 2019. I saw firsthand how secure the southern border was during President Trump's first term. I went on to be at the southern border for the next four years to document the deliberate and horrific open border policies implemented by the Biden-Harris administration. The numbers don't lie. The videos don't lie. What our country experienced was a deliberate invasion at the behest of the previous administration. Their efforts could not have been possible without the nongovernmental organizations who provided the federal government the ability to flood our country with people who brazenly cross our borders illegally. The NGOs located along the border were often the first place processed migrants went to after being released by Border Patrol. These organizations helped the Biden-Harris administration avoid the bad optics of released migrants having to be on the street due to the large volume of overcrowding in certain sectors. Even with those efforts, the mass overcrowding still resulted in people sleeping on the streets, sometimes during the winter. Ultimately, the goal of these NGOs was to get people to their desired destination within the United States and get them settled in, even though their legal status was far from being secured. I would often see volunteers or staffers at the airport when I left the border guiding these processed migrants to ensure they made their flights. A few times, I saw them ushering unaccompanied minors. This is haunting to think back on now, knowing that Biden's HHS lost track of tens of thousands of minors once they reached their supposed final destination. By having this guaranteed help once they reached US soil, illegal aliens had greater incentive to put their lives in danger by traversing through the Darién Gap in cartel-controlled territory in Mexico. One shelter in El Paso told me in 2023 around 80% of the women who had come to them had been raped, sometimes in front of their children. This highlights that, despite the NGOs having the stated goal of helping these people, their help ends up harming the people who would go to use their services. Yes, they made it to the United States, but at what cost? Congress needs to ensure taxpayer dollars cannot be used to go towards enabling an invasion of our country ever again. It is a misuse of taxpayer dollars, and most importantly, it's a betrayal to the American people. Our tax money should be going towards Americans first and foremost. Instead, millions of dollars went to organizations such as Catholic Charities and International Rescue Committee. The reason why it's important to not let this happen again is because the four-year-long border crisis facilitated by these NGOs is the reason why there are riots in sanctuary cities today. President Trump campaigned and won on carrying out mass deportations, and the American people want to undo the damage inflicted by the Biden-Harris administration. NGOs have even made an appearance at the recent unrest happening in Los Angeles County. A recent example of this is federal agents arresting four people for interfering with an operation by allegedly placing homemade spikes on the road with the intention to damage their tires. On their person was a bag branded with the logo of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights Los Angeles. Congress needs to look into whether NGOs are supporting people directly or indirectly who are currently interfering with federal operations. I can tell you that while Americans are happy the border crisis is finally over, they want to see accountability, and I believe Congress can make that accountability happen should you decide to act. And since I have a few—a little bit of time left, I want to say I'm here testifying today as a proud Latino. But most importantly, I'm here as an American citizen. This is my country. This is my home. This is where I grew up in. And that is why the rhetoric coming from one side of the aisle about these operations, saying, No, no, no, we got to keep our cheap labor so that we can maintain our standard of living, proves that they want to view Latinos Latinos simply as an underclass to siphon votes from and fearmonger from every time that there's an election. They're content with keeping us as that servant underclass, and that is why it is disgusting to see them criticize that recent raid in Ventura County, where they found unaccompanied minors working alongside convicted sex offenders at a cannabis farm. No, we got to keep them there, because or else how else are we going to get high if we can't have unaccompanied minors harvest our weed? It's, quite frankly, despicable. And the last thing I want to say is that the last time I appeared before this committee, we had one member say that antifa is just an ideology, it's not a movement, by using an outdated quote from the FBI Director. Well, coming back from Los Angeles, Seattle, and Portland just this past month with the recent riots, I can tell you that antifa is very real and the fact that they are also connected to that recent attempted ambush at that ICE facility in Texas. So, I just wanted to reflect for the record that I was right then, I'm right now, that antifa is very real and they're very dangerous. Thank you.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, and I want to thank all of our witnesses again for being here and for their opening statements. Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their five minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning may be called after all members have been recognized. I'd like to recognize the gentleman from the great state of Louisiana, Clay Higgins, for five minutes.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the panelists for being here today. I'm going to ask you all a yes or no question, and we're going to build this thing out. Do you believe if, if an employee or an agent of an NGO that is implicated in child trafficking in a criminal investigation, if they cross the threshold of reasonable suspicion, and they're investigated. And that investigation leads to the jurisdictional authority, the investigative authority, developing probable cause. So they cross the threshold of probable cause, and they're arrested. And then they're prosecuted, and if they're convicted, they cross the threshold of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and they are convicted. We're talking about an employee of an NGO that participated willingly. during the last four years with the trafficking of human beings, including children that were destined to be trafficked into the sex trade. Mr. Howell, do you think that employee of that NGO should be convicted and incarcerated based upon the judicial system and the criminal justice system I just described? Yes or no?

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Yes.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Ms. Hopper?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Yes.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Rosas?

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Yes.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Well, I concur. And much to the chagrin of a of a whole abhorrent industry of child trafficking that prospered from the open border policies of the Biden administration for 4 years, 2021, '22, '23, and '24, much to the chagrin of these people that made bank, man. We're coming after them. And and this executive branch is building criminal files. So I hope they're watching, and I hope they're frightened, and I hope they're getting their affairs in order, hiring their liberal attorneys to defend them, starting to shuffle their money around. We'll find it. Mr. Howell, are you aware that ongoing right now, right now in our country, have DHS, ICE, FBI, local and state law enforcement agencies working on classified operations to locate, find, and rescue trafficked tender age mostly girls—we're talking about girls under 14 and younger across the country that were trafficked into our country in 2021, '22, '23, and '24. Are you aware that those operations are ongoing?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Yes, sir. They're trying to find the children the Biden administration lost.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Mr. Howell. Ms. Hopper, are you aware

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

I am.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Rosas?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Correct. I'm aware.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Would you be surprised that according to my research, which will very soon be revealed next week, they've rescued so far 35,000 tender-aged kids? How do you like that? Now, according to Ms. Hopper research, which I find fascinating, everybody up here should, 70% of the documentation turned in by so-called sponsors, which were lined up by who? The NGOs. Through who primarily? HHS. There was a pipeline, man. We fed a pipeline of tender-aged children into sex trafficking and slave labor into our country. We're finding these kids. We're tracking this fraudulent documents. You're right, Ms. Hopper. My research showed a little bit less, 65%. You said 70%. I'll go with 70. So be advised, be advised, we are building out case files, criminal case files. We're interviewing these 35,000 kids, and we're finding out exactly what the hell happened, how they ended up in the nightmare where they were. And we're rescuing more, and there's nothing anybody can do about it. We're going to identify these children. We're locating these children. We're rescuing these children, and we're building out criminal files based upon the testimony of these young teenagers and the documentation of fraudulent vetting. And many of these NGO employees are going to find themselves wearing orange, be their new favorite color. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the indulgence. I yield.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes Ranking Member Thompson for his 5 minutes of questioning.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, you and I both are from Mississippi, and we know all too well the sense of devastation and hopelessness experienced by disaster survivors. The many, many of the nonprofits the majority is attacking today under your leadership are the very people who rush to support our constituents in their darkest days. It is a disappointing way to begin your tenure as chairman if your conference does, in fact, select you for that post. Mr. Chairman, you have read the same reporting I have. You've heard the same whispers of concern about the administration's action decimating staff across the department, and you've seen the horrific results of the department's gross incompetence in just six short months. As of July 4th weekend began, the deadliest floods in Texas history were wreaking havoc in communities across the state. Over 130 people died, including nearly 30 campers and counselors at an all-girls Christian summer camp. Now, we know that because of Secretary Noem's policies, FEMA's urban search and rescue teams were not deployed until at least 72 hours after the flooding began, and FEMA's recovery center contracts were allowed to to to lapse. Disaster survivors called FEMA for help, but it answered only 35% of their calls. As Texans suffered, Secretary Noem was posting glamour shots for her South Dakota official portrait on Instagram. Apparently, federal disaster response can wait, but Instagram posts cannot. President Reagan once said the nine most terrifying words in the English language were, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help. Secretary Noem's DHS has proven that it's far scarier when you call the government for help and no one answers. The secretary has also allowed ICE to execute racist immigration raids haphazardly rounding up Americans and migrants alike based on skin color, ethnicity, and the language someone speaks. She has defied court orders to halt deportation and timely returns wrongly deported individuals. Worst of all, the secretary has overseen the deportation of American citizen children, including a 4-year-old with cancer, which I suppose is something you might expect from someone who's proud of shooting her puppy in the face. The secretary has empowered unqualified MAGA lackeys to manage critical anti-terrorism operations charged with protecting our communities from hate-filled violence. As we face increasingly sophisticated cyber threats, the secretary has harassed nearly 1,000 cyber experts at CISA into quitting their jobs and eliminating its election security work because the president is still upset that he lost the 2020 election. Though she might have been reluctant to respond to the multiple oversight requests made by committee Democrats, she's managed to find time to go on television to gaslight the public. Secretary Noem has a lot of answers, for Republicans have impeached cabinet secretaries for less, for nothing in fact. For those reasons, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Lynn Noem.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yield back. I yield. Before the gentleman yields back, uh, is there a motion?

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Move to table the motion.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There is a motion to table. Uh, the committee will suspend at this time.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

the gentleman is recognized.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Parliamentary inquiry. Are we waiting on something?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Waiting on members to return to the committee room.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

So will you entertain that request from, uh, the minority when We don't have enough members to defeat, to defeat a vote.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr goldman, the committee hearing at this point is in suspension per the rules. I have the ability to call us into suspension, and that's where we are at this point.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No, I understand. I'm just wondering if you're going to do it similarly and equally for the minority, or you're just going to make it for the majority.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

Quality, quality.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, I know this is your maiden voyage, but there's a motion on the floor and you can't recess a motion because members are not here.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The committee is not in recess, Ranking Member Thompson.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Well, that's what you said.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

I'm sorry. The committee has been suspended.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Yes, sir, Mr. Thompson.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

You know, there's a motion before the committee, and I ask that my motion be acted on. You can't suspend it or do anything like that. That's not the rules. Good,

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

good, good chair.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)

The chairman. The rules don't, of this committee, don't allow for just to stop. And I'm just asking that we go forward with the motion.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The chair has already explained where we are at this point, Mr. Thompson. And until additional members return to the chamber, we will not be moving forward.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

You know, I, I'm just saying that if we following the rules of the committee, what you're doing is not in the rule.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Your point has been made and is in the record that you do not feel that I'm following the rules. That has been made clear, Mr. Thompson. And so you can continue to make that and continue to put that in the record if you would like.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Can you cite to us what rule allows for you to suspend until members return?

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

Parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

the people. This is how we break rules all day here. Law

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

and order, folks.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)

That was the most classical.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Mr. Chairman, I ask the parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Yes, Mr. Goldman.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Can you please cite the rule of the committee that allows you to suspend the hearing to wait for members to come for a vote? I assume you want to follow the rules of the committee as the chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

As I understand, Mr. Goldman, it's at the chair's discretion. I have used that discretion and I have suspended. I understand that you and Mr. Thompson and other members may not be happy with that, but that is the decision No.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

I just want you to follow the rules. Simple question. I assume you want to follow the rules as the, as the acting chairman. So presumably there's a rule that you can cite to that allows you to do this. There is no general discretion of the chair to do whatever the chair wants to do. That is not a rule in the House of Representatives.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

All right, at this time, the motion before the chair is a motion to table. That motion to table is privileged. That motion is non-debatable. All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify by saying aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any opposed, please signify by saying no.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The chair rules that the ayes have it and that the motion prevails. I'm assuming that there is a request for a recorded vote. Is that correct, Mr. Thompson?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

There is a request for

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

a recorded vote. There has been a request for a recorded vote. We'll let our clerk become— get situated. Mr. Clerk, would you please call the roll?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

It's 11:11 right now. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Uh, the chair votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there other members who wish to have their vote recorded or to change their vote? Seeing none, would the clerk please report the tally of the vote?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion passes.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Point of order. Can we please, uh, have the list of, uh, aye votes read to us and members that voted aye?

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Were all present to cast their votes?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, were all present and cast their votes, to your knowledge?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Thank you. The ranking member has yielded back. At this time, I would recognize myself for my 5 minutes of questioning. I want to respond to some of the allegations contained in the ranking member's opening statement. And Mr. Thompson, I'm assuming you didn't write that statement, because you have known me for some period of time. I know you to be someone who that I have a longstanding relationship with, and do not believe that you would write an opening statement attacking mine or the Christianity of any other member of this committee. I don't believe that you would weaponize my religious beliefs. I don't believe that you would criticize me because I choose to teach Sunday school in my church, and to somehow say that because I'm a Sunday school, because I'm a Christian, that me being a part of this hearing somehow in some way flies in the face of my religious beliefs. Because what we're doing here today is we are not casting a broad net on every nongovernmental organization, every nonprofit. We are instead focusing this hearing on those who have profited off of the illegal immigration that we saw under the Biden-Harris administration. I have mentioned nothing in my statement about nonprofits such as Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Samaritan's Purse, Doctors Without Borders, nonprofits who actually take money and use it for the good, who are out there collecting money from their congregation, from members of the community who wish to give back. Instead, this hearing is focused on those handful of nonprofits who receive their money almost exclusively from grants from the federal government, but yet still claim to be nonprofits. Ms. Hopper, you mentioned two of those in your written testimony, two that I referenced in my opening statement, those two being Endeavors, who, according to my information that I received, Endeavors received 97% of their funding from federal or local grants. They weren't out raising money. They weren't out there ringing the bell there at Christmas asking people to give money. They weren't in churches asking members of the congregation to please give to these organizations. They were instead an arm of the federal government in that they received 97% of their funding. And then, Southwest Key Programs was an NGO that blew past that. 99% of their funding came from grants from the federal government. And what did these organizations do with that? You talk about in your testimony, Ms. Hopper, you talk about Endeavors, that in 2020 Endeavors reported $52 million in revenue, that in 2021 they reported $658 million in revenue, a $600 million increase in a year, with 97% of that money coming from the federal government, and then in 2022, they reported a record $1.18 billion from the federal government, or at least 97% of that. You talk about how executives for Endeavors padded their pockets, that with this increase in revenue comes increase in salary, that the compensation for the CEO doubled. You talk about these particular CEOs that I mentioned. Instead of using that money to protect children, they were treating this money like venture capitalists. You also stated in there that an Endeavors individual, someone within their organization, said that the border crisis was a boon for business. In an article from the New York Post, they talk about another one of these nonprofits. They talk about Southwest Key. The headline says, "Texas nonprofit housing migrant kids took $3 billion in grants from Biden administration and boosted executive salaries up to 139% to pull the plug." And so, I am offended when people from the other side say that we're not being Christian, that we don't want to help people. We're not saying that all nonprofits are bad. Many of us support and give money and volunteer to those. But this hearing today is focused on those nonprofits which were government-funded, which were used by the Biden-Harris administration to continue to move people across the border against the will of the public and without the authorization of Congress. So, with that, I yield back, and I now recognize my friend from California, Mr. Correa, for 5 minutes for his questioning of the witnesses.

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I do hope to continue to work with you as a friend here in this committee. I would also, though, want to point out that some of our witnesses have to be careful with the testimony. Mr. Rosas pointed out Catholic Charities as being one of those organizations that received funding. I'm a Catholic. I'm kind of disappointed in that.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Um, why?

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

because of what the chairman said, this Catholic Charities does good work, and you pointed out somebody who got money to do something that was unethical or illegal. Thank you. But Mr. Chairman, big job here of this committee is oversight, okay? Homeland Security's budget has doubled. The mission, as was pointed out, some of the witnesses here today, was to go after undocumented criminals. Yet, back home, every day— we're a peaceful, loving community—masked ICE agents, no badge, no identification, grabbing people off the streets on the suspicion that they may be undocumented. Today, 70% of those apprehended undocumented are not criminals. They're hardworking taxpayers. Recently, a pastor in Florida that had been here for 20 years with a stay of removal was arrested. All of you have known, I told you the story, I'll tell it again: father, 25 years, not a traffic ticket to his name, father of three Marines was apprehended. DHS recently raided a church in California sanctuary. I thought we're supposed to go after criminals. What authority does DHS have to go after churches? Are these the right people? Not quite sure. Are we creating a national federal police here with unlimited powers? But, you know, let's not talk about undocumented here. Let's talk about US citizens, okay? Countless US citizens being detained in this country. In my district, an attorney, woman, female, walking down Centennial Park, apprehended by ICE. Did not touch, did not do anything offensive to the ICE agent, was arrested, put in a van with no windows, cuffed, taken to a detention center for hours. What are we coming to? Many stories like that. US citizens being detained by ICE not for a few hours, but for a few days, so a US citizen speaking with an accent. US citizens. Do I have to carry around a passport now? Do I have to tell children that are American citizens to have their ID and passports with them? Is that what we're coming to? Mr. Chairman, I want to work with you. Let's work on oversight.

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

A lot of these ICE agents, their performance, are probably going to rely on that defense called qualified immunity when they do things like violate our constitutional rights. What's our defense for not doing our job of oversight? Facial recognition technology now? Everybody now, citizens or not, U.S. citizens, facial recognition technology without your permission, without a warrant. We should, Mr. Chairman, today have Todd Lyons, Acting Director of ICE, come before this committee and explain what's going on. Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of Rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena Mr. Todd Lyons, the Acting Director of ICE. Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Mr. Chairman, I move to table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There is a motion to table. Mr. Crane, do you yield back at this point?

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

Yes.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

And the gentleman yields back. The gentleman from Florida has moved to table. The motion is privileged and is non-debatable. All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify by stating aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any opposed, signify by stating no.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. Is there a request, Mr. Ranking Member? A request from Mr. Correa for a recorded vote. We will allow the clerk a moment to A recorded vote in this matter has been called. Mr. Clerk, if you would please call the roll.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Strong Aye.

Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA)SPEAKER_18

Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there other members who wish to have their vote recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, how is the chair recorded?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chair, is Mr. Magaziner recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Magaziner recorded.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Magaziner, how would you like to be recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Magaziner was recorded as a no.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Chair votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The clerk will report the total

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion is not successful. The motion— excuse me, the motion is successful and is agreed to.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

At this point, I would recognize my friend from the state of Florida, Mr. Gimenez, for his five minutes of questioning.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hopper, how many children do you think that that DHS basically lost and didn't have track of during the four years of the Biden administration that were admitted into the United States?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

The reports vary, but the last number that we were made aware of was over 325,000 children that went unaccounted for.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

325,000 children are not accounted for. So the— my colleagues on the other side don't want to speak about this hearing. They want nothing to do with this hearing. All right. Why? Because of the failure.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

one of the greatest failures in American history of the Biden administration, I believe, was in not keeping track of children. And it wasn't like the folks that sit on the other side of this aisle weren't made aware by people sitting on this side of the aisle that it was happening. And they failed to do anything or speak out against really this atrocity that was happening to the children that were coming through the border. So, this hearing is about the enrichment of certain NGOs and their part in this tragedy. But also, one thing that we haven't talked about is really not only did this administration enrich a lot of these NGOs—and I'm not painting them all the same. I'm Catholic, all right? So, and I'm a really good friend of Mark, archbishop in my in Miami, all right? We have dinner and all that, so I know the great work that they do, but I know there's also bad apples in there—but also the billions of dollars that flowed to the Mexican cartels through human trafficking. And all of it, all of it—and you've heard This is not the first time you're going to hear me say it—was done on purpose. Because you can't be that stupid. You can't be that dumb. And so, the Biden administration allowed, lost track of 300,000 people, children, all right? Probably lost track of millions of other people, migrants, in the United States as they were being trafficked all around. Some, indentured servants. The children, indentured servants, and even worse, in sex trade. All done on purpose. That has to be one of the biggest scandals in American history. And that's why my colleagues on the other side are running for the hills. But you can run, but you can't hide, and you can't justify the inexcusable. And it's not like we didn't tell them. And it wasn't like I wasn't here for four years, telling them, Hey, this is this is happening and it's done on purpose. And a lot of my colleagues here were doing the same thing, and they just ran away. And now, they're trying to say, Well, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about what we're talking about today. And so, what we're trying to, I guess, bring to light is we want to make sure this never happens again. And, yeah, we need to bring it to light right now, because it wasn't going to be brought to light under the Biden administration, all right, and make sure that it never happens again. And I thank God that we have President Trump in office who has controlled the border and so the cartels aren't getting richer by the minute using human trafficking and that our children, those children are not being exploited. And so, again, what can we do to make sure this never happens again, Ms. Hopper?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Thank you for your question. I actually had compiled a couple of policy recommendations. Now, there are more than that I can provide. But first of all, we need to initiate forensic audits of all ORR contracts over $100 million and potentially suspend funding until completed, along with implementing full clawback provisions for unspent funds and mandate independent federal oversight, standardized tracking, and thorough home studies for UAC placements.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. And I hope that we as a, as a, as a committee can take those recommendations and, and put them into legislation. And I hope It would be a bipartisan effort, because what's happening to those children is definitely a crime. Thank you. And I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman yields

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

back. Mr. Chairman, point of order.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Point of order.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Thank you. I ask unanimous consent to include into the record this Republican press release from this committee saying that Catholic Charities and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is in fact under investigation.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, he'll be admitted. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from the state of Michigan, Dr. Thanedar, for his five minutes of questioning.

Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-MI)SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking Member. Today I speak as a representative of the American people who desire accountability, transparency, and integrity. My Republican colleagues on this committee continue to discuss fabricated allegations and are intimidating NGOs, a step straight out of the authoritarian playbook. If they want to investigate fraud, waste, and abuse, this committee should instead focus on DHS Inspector General Joseph Cuffari's failure to uphold his office's core principles of accountability, transparency, and integrity. The position of Inspector General is a vital one. IGs are tasked with ensuring the agency they oversee remains honest and lawful. During a period when the DHS is riddled with incompetence and abuse of law, the Inspector General is ever so important. However, it is clear that Mr. Cuffari is incapable of holding DHS responsible due to his own disregard for accountability. IG Cuffari misused $1.4 million in taxpayer dollars by hiring a private law firm to investigate his own employees in retaliation for their criticism of his qualifications. He ultimately had to pay one of those employees $1.7 million settlement. Inspector generals are supposed to protect whistleblowers from retaliation, not be the source of retaliation. The IG misrepresented himself during his confirmation process by failing to disclose, when asked, that at the time of his retirement from the Justice Department, he was under investigation by the DOJ's Office of Inspector General for ethics violations. Furthermore, he provided inaccurate and misleading answers with respect to possible misconduct when he was a federal law enforcement officer. We also know that Mr. Cuffari routinely deleted text messages from his own government-issued phone, a violation of federal recordkeeping laws. Lastly, he continuously obstructed this committee's work by refusing to respond to inquiries and blocking his employees from appearing for transcribed interviews. Investigating all of these controversies, the Council of Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency, an office then run by a Trump-appointed inspector general, found that Mr. Cuffari had abused his authority and engaged in substantial misconduct, recommending that President Biden fire him. Mr. Cuffari's tenure as Inspector General has been marked by fraud, waste, and abuse. He has rendered the very watchdog office meant to protect DHS from abuse and mismanagement untrustworthy and inefficient. For the sake of accountability and for the sake of public trust in government, this committee must demand more from the Inspector General and hold him responsible. Mr. Chair, pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6) of Rule XI, I move that committee subpoena DHS Inspector General Joseph V. Cuffari to appear before this committee to provide sworn testimony and to produce all relevant documents regarding his performance as the DHS Inspector General.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Mr. Chairman, I move to table.

Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-MI)SPEAKER_01

I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yields back. There has been a motion from Mr. Gimenez from Florida to table. The gentleman that moves to table, that motion is privileged and is non-debatable. All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

All those opposed signify by saying no. No. The ruling of the chairs is that the ayes prevail. Is there a motion for a recorded vote, Dr. Thanedar?

Rep. Shri Thanedar (D-MI)SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

A motion for a recorded vote has been made. If we will take a moment to allow the clerk to return to his position. Would the clerk please call the roll?

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Swalwell.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, how's the chair recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Chair votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there other— any other members who wish to be recorded?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I'm an aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any additional members who wish to be recorded on this vote? The clerk will tally and report the totals

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion is agreed to. At this time, the chair would recognize for 5 minutes of his questioning Mr. Pfluger from the great state of Texas.

Rep. August Pfluger (R-TX)SPEAKER_09

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Never been so disappointed to sit in a partisan hearing. I mean, what a what a joke. And let me just let me just correct the record for the gentleman from Mississippi talking about the floods in Texas and FEMA not being there. False. Completely false. They were there. I don't think the ranking member was there. I was there. Several people on this committee were there. So, the assertion that FEMA was not there, you want to politicize something, go politicize something else. But that's out of bounds. What a tragedy. And to try to take advantage of that in this here in this space, the Homeland Security space formed after 9/11, what a tragic statement to make. I mean, of all the things, and we kind of knew the politicization was coming, but for it to happen in this committee, Secretary was there multiple times. FEMA director was engaged everywhere. People on this committee were recovering and searching for bodies. I'm just I'm shocked, totally shocked at that statement. You know where else my colleagues on the other side of the aisle were not? They weren't at the border for the last four years. I was there. I'd Like to seek unanimous consent to submit for the record two videos from the Darién Gap from a CODEL in 2023, Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

without objection.

Rep. August Pfluger (R-TX)SPEAKER_09

These videos show the children that are walking through. And only one Democrat accepted the offer to go to that CODEL, to go see firsthand. Only one. The entire subcommittee was invited, and yet only one. And he's no longer a member. Only one. And you know how many hearings we had at the border from 2021 and 2022? Zero. You know how many hearings we had on border security from 2021 to 2022? Zero. So it's pretty rich to hear the assertions from the gentleman from Mississippi that the FEMA director is not involved in flooding, that DHS is not involved in flooding. Ms. Hopper, in your testimony, you talk about unprecedented trafficking due to lax sponsor vetting, and you also talk about alarming conditions and falsified records. I'm going to give you 2 minutes to describe the lack of sponsor vetting that led to the abuse of children at a level that has—that is completely unprecedented. And be specific.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Thank you for your— for your time. When we're talking about sponsor vetting, when I spoke with a retired Border Patrol agent, He had said that the requirements to adopt a dog that was about to be euthanized were higher than the standards and the documents that needed to be provided for an adult to sponsor a child. He went through more hoops to adopt a dog than what people would go through to sponsor a child when it only takes 2 phone calls to verify that someone picks up on the other line, voice verification, or you receive a photograph of an identification through WhatsApp with no facial match to the person sending the photograph. When people talk about doing a better job in Photoshop with fake IDs than what the documents they received in a picture of an ID, and no meaningful background checks on these sponsors. When you have children that are unaccompanied, and as a mother, as a Christian, as a Hispanic, you have children being sent to known pedophiles, known gang members, known individuals with criminal backgrounds. That is what led to this.

Rep. August Pfluger (R-TX)SPEAKER_09

Thank you. Every single person that was on this committee from 2021 to 20 to the end of President Biden's presidency went to the border multiple times, multiple times, and saw these atrocities that were happening firsthand, talked to these kids, saw the ones that were left in the brush. So it's pretty rich to say that we shouldn't be looking at NGOs that had a role, that were culpable and complicit in not vetting people or not doing the appropriate work. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you for holding this hearing. I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Swalwell.

Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA)SPEAKER_18

Nobody asked for the cruel deportations that we're seeing right now. We were promised that violent criminals, the worst in our community, would be removed. I'm good with that. I don't want violent criminals who are undocumented in our community. I'll help with that. Put out a list of 1,000 people. Most Americans are up for getting those folks out of our community. We were promised the worst would be removed. What we have found is that rather than focusing on the worst offenders in our community, this administration arrested a 6-year-old battling leukemia, and detained that 6-year-old in the cruelest, harshest conditions. ICE detains 6-year-old leukemia patient and his family even though they followed every immigration rule. In detention, the children cried every night, according to the family's attorney. The woman's 6-year-old son also experienced bruising and bone pain, both symptoms of leukemia, and missed an appointment related to his cancer treatment. His sister barely ate. Don't give me this Christian nonsense that I've heard from some of these witnesses. I'm a Christian. I'm a father. I'm from a law enforcement family. I was a prosecutor. This is not who we are. This is not what any American signed up for. This administration deported a 4-year-old American citizen battling cancer. They arrested a U.S. Marshal. They're not up for this job. They're just up for the cruelty, for owning the libs. They're not serious about protecting our communities from the worst. And these ICE agents running around our communities like masked bank robbers, terrorizing women, they're going to get themselves hurt, and I hope that doesn't happen. And we're already seeing women are being targeted by people who are impersonating ICE agents. I hope every state that is able to and every community that is able to unmasks ICE with their policies. If you're standing on the law, you can show your face. The FBI, they're probably doing a search and seizure right now at some dangerous criminal's home. They're not masked. They loudly, on their blue jackets, have that yellow insignia that says, FBI. No other law enforcement agency in America runs around our communities masked. It's time that we unmask ICE. This is an administration that does not want to be held accountable. Secretary Noem does not want to come in and testify. Stephen Miller certainly doesn't want to sit in that chair and defend putting this 6-year-old battling leukemia into deportation proceedings. Tom Homan doesn't want to come here and defend why he thinks it's okay to target people based on their accent and the color of their skin. Yes, he said that. Thankfully, a California court has shut that down, and hopefully more lawsuits are brought across America to shut that down. But my Republican colleagues in Congress, they don't work for the administration. They are, theoretically, an independent branch of government—Article I, the preeminent branch of government. So why do they go for this? Why do they enable this? Why aren't they outraged that this 6-year-old boy was in a condition where children are crying every night and experiencing bone pain as he fights cancer? This issue is pretty simple: Go after the worst and protect the most vulnerable, the ones who are contributing to our community. So if our Republican colleagues are not up for holding the administration accountable, then Democrats will. So, Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy and Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Does the gentleman yield back?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Is there a motion?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Motion to table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There has been a motion to table. The gentleman moves the motion to table. The motion to table is privileged and non-debatable. All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify by saying aye. Any opposed, No no? The ruling of the chair is the ayes have it. Mr. Swalwell, is there a motion for a recorded vote? A motion for a recorded vote has been made. We will allow the clerk a moment to resume his position. The clerk will call the roll.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, how is the chair recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Chair votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there any other members who wish to have their vote recorded? If not, the clerk will report the total to the

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion is passed. At this time, the chair would recognize the gentleman from the great state of New York, Mr.—oh, I'm sorry. At this time, we will recognize the gentleman from the great state of Texas, Mr. Luttrell, for his questioning.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to point out Mr. Swalwell point about that young man, and I don't know the information on it, that he was detained. We have to do a better job here on this committee as far as oversight goes. There's multiple problems that I see. We should do our absolute best in the department to not make mistakes. The number of 325,000 missing children is a problem. We shouldn't have that problem. My question is to Mr. Howell and Ms. Hopper. When those babies came across the border and were touched by Homeland Security and then passed on to an NGO, I would think that the NGO should have a responsibility of knowing where those children went, correct?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

They should.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Do— are we aware whether or not the NGOs have records of who took those children into custody? Because I would think that we should have the NGOs also in front of us answering those questions so we can find those children.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

They should.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Do they?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

That would be a great question for the NGOs.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Mr.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Howell. Congressman, in litigation, we have sued the department for record sets kept by the NGOs that the department has access to. Those record sets do not have a lot of information. That is by design. It is why the government offloads this responsibility to nonprofits, so they don't have to answer your tough questions and have custody of this derogatory information.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

So to clarify your statement, NGOs are not to be held accountable for data aggregation on children that they put— that they move from their— through their organization into custody of someone else?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

They absolutely should be held accountable. I

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

know they should be, but are you saying that they are or are not?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Are not.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

And that is in the language that has been created for NGOs to get government grants?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Correct. There are obligations on the recipient of grants to keep statistics, information, etc., and all sorts of other legal obligations that are upon them.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

To add to that, they have a contractual accountability. But aside from contractual accountability, it ends there.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

What you got?

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Well, that's exactly the problem, because it's not just the fact that we had this—we have this massive volume of people, and so things are obviously going to slip through the cracks. So there's there's no way to really figure out exactly how many they ran through or how many they processed, because like Border Patrol at the time and Customs, they were overwhelmed because people had a greater incentive to arrive illegally because of the policies pursued by the Biden-Harris administration.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

So, to my understanding, for this committee and moving forward, we need to make sure that legislation states properly that any NGO, whether or not, be it the Catholic organization or whomever, has to follow certain guidelines and rules, which obviously that is not in place. Correct? And in order for us to maintain accountability for any and all who come through our border, child, whomever, into the United States of America, we need to know exactly where they are at all times. Correct?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

It should be tied in the contract, along with the grant money, that it is outlined who is responsible for the data collection and management, whether it's HHS or the NGOs. And if the NGOs are responsible, it needs to outline the requirements and the expectations of how to maintain.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

So DHS needs to provide those standards to any NGO. Those NGOs need to have those standards passed on to anybody that's receiving a child,

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

if they're accepting the grant dollars.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Correct. So that's our next step. I would say that's pretty simple, right?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I would say the simpler solution is to stop funding the invasion of the United States. We can impose the

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

I don't— okay, I got you, buddy. I'm trying to go granular on this. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I'm trying to fix a problem that exists. We can bitch about it all day long, which we're just going to beat each other up and we're not going to go anywhere. I'm really trying to fix this problem. Okay, so we have to move legislatively in order to solve that problem.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Right. And H.R. 2 contains a provision which would do a lot of that. It could also be improved.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Okay, so our next— my next step as a congressional member is to write out legislation that both sides would agree on in order to fix this problem. That sounds like a pretty good fix, correct? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

gentleman yields. Mr. Goldman is recognized for questions.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Here we are again, la-la land, and Homeland Security Committee conducting oversight of the president and his administration. Great, because there are many, many things that Congress should be conducting oversight over the, this administration. Donald Trump campaigned on finding convicted criminals who are unlawfully here in this country and deporting them. The worst of the worst, he said. Instead, he and his unidentified, masked, secret ICE agents are snatching and arresting immigrants from court proceedings, nonviolent, noncriminal immigrants pursuing legal pathways to immigrate to this country, and then illegally detaining them in horrific conditions and even possibly deporting them despite the fact that they are here legally. You would think the committee with jurisdiction over the Department, Department of Homeland Security would want to conduct oversight over the department's refusal to allow members of Congress to observe the conditions of DHS detention facilities. In fact, there is a specific statute that authorizes both Republicans and Democrats to conduct oversight over facilities that house or detain immigrants, but no, the department refuses. So, we're here in the Homeland Security Committee, and I'm sure the Republican majority does not like it when this administration undermines its own authority, authority, its own statutory authority to conduct oversight. But no, instead of all of that, we are here talking yet again about Joe Biden. News flash: Joe Biden is not the president. He hasn't been the president for seven months. So, if we are going to conduct oversight here, why are we doing it about the Biden administration when this administration is literally detaining lawful permanent residents and even some US citizens? And it gets worse. It's not just those masked ICE agents. There are many FBI agents who are being called away from their duties to investigate terrorism, violent gangs, child trafficking, and other crimes in order to help ICE arrest and detain immigrants with legal asylum claims, nonviolent. That makes our homeland less safe, not more safe. So, we should hear from FBI Director Kash Patel about how many of his criminal investigators are being taken away from their criminal investigatory jobs, keeping Americans safe in order to help round up noncriminal immigrants trying to immigrate the right way. Some of these detainees are being held in Bureau of Prisons detention centers that are unfit for convicted criminals to stay in. We should hear from Pam Bondi about how much of the department's resources are being used to detain these nonviolent, noncriminal immigration detainees. And while they're here, we can ask them about a very pressing question: What's going on with the Epstein files? Donald Trump promised to release them. Pam Bondi said she had the files on her desk and that she was going to release them in the name of transparency. Kash Patel has spent years railing against the FBI to release the files. Many of my Republican colleagues were banging on the table to release the Epstein files. But now, all of a sudden, after a months-long review, Bondi and Patel say nothing to see here, no evidence that any American would want to see about accomplices, co-conspirators, or other people involved. Yesterday, the Republicans voted against releasing the files. So, what's changed? Well, we all know Donald Trump has had a relation, had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He flew on his plane. He hung out at parties, spoke highly of him. And now, there are many people saying that Donald Trump is included in the Epstein files. In fact, there are reporters who say that there are videos of him with topless women. Elon Musk even confirmed that Trump is blocking the release of these files because he's in them. Pam Bondi says there's nothing there, but Donald Trump even acknowledges that there is evidence there. It's just not credible. It's made up. This is a Truth Social post from 9:43 this morning. It is an admission that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files, and the American people deserve to know whether he is or not.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Garbarino Chairman, I would ask for

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

to clause 2(k)(6) of

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Rule 11. Not recognized. Your time has expired.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

I

CROSSTALK

have

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

motion. Garbarino, Chairman, recognized for questioning.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Mr. Chairman, I have a motion.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Thank you,

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Gentleman has a motion.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6)

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Chairman, motion tabled.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Gentleman has a motion.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Motion to table.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Motion to table is, is privileged and non-debatable. We should ask all those in favor of the motion to table say aye. Aye. All those opposed?

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion to table is agreed to.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Could I have a recorded vote, please?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Recorded vote is requested. The clerk shall call the roll.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Aye.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

Aye.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

No.

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

Am I recorded?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Any other member not recorded?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

As a gentleman.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Mr. Chairman, what are we waiting for?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, sir.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

What are we waiting for?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

We're waiting for all members to complete voting, sir.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

We have all members who've completed votes, Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Call the question.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, sir.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

We'd like to call the question and have the vote tallied. All members who are present have voted.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Your, your request is heard and denied. We're waiting for members to return to the chamber to vote.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Yes, Mr. Ranking Member.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

We went through this once, but that's not in the rules.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

It's kind of you to have that opinion, Mr. Ranking Member, but I'm the chairman and we're going to wait till members return to the vote. You guys of pushing a button on these procedural votes. It's not on the agenda. It was not discussed prior to this hearing. And we're going to give all members of both sides ample time to return to the chamber and cast their vote. It's the end of that debate.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, for the record, you

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

perhaps— it's

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

not— the committee didn't even give notice of this hearing. So what are you talking about engaging?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I'm quite certain that the committee is within the parameters of the rules of the House and the committee. Mr. Ranking Member, you've been on the committee longer than most of us have been, uh,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

and that's why I'm trying to explain the rules to you.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I'm pretty sure you know the rules. We're following the rules.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Uh, which rule are you following, Mr. Chairman?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

You're the attorney, sir. You can look up the rules. I can tell you that I have high confidence that this committee, the staff of this committee, is following every rule, and the parameters shall be continued. We will, we will wait for members to return to the chambers. This happens all the time. This is not new. This happens in every committee when procedural votes are called. Members have excused themselves after their questioning to handle our business. They have to return to the chamber. We'll allow that for the Democrats. We'll allow it for the Republicans. That's fair.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, we've never asked to wait want to vote.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Well, we've never had anyone tell you to ask, Mr. Ranking Member, because

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

that's— yeah, it is not generally how

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

you rule.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

It's not the rules of the committee.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, you're welcome to have that opinion, but I state again that the committee is operating within the parameters of the rules of the House and the committee. I have the parliamentary

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

inquiry, Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I have the gavel and I have, I have the the right to keep the vote open until members have returned from across campus to cast an important vote.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Mr.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Chairman, this is not new. It's historically accurate and traditional in Congress.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

That's not true, Mr. Chairman. It's never done in this committee, and other committees have specific rules that allow for the chairman to do this. This committee does not have that rule. We are simply asking if it is if you are doing this pursuant to the rules of the House or the committee, that you simply point us to the rule that allows you to do this. Because if you are now ruling as chairman without the authority of the rules, we have a whole different issue.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Mr. Chairman, point of order.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Point of order.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

This committee existed before the gentleman from New York was a member of Congress. I was in the minority back here in 2021, as some of my colleagues did. And the ranking member, who was chairman at that time, repeatedly held votes open when they were not for members to return here to vote. Not because they were for one way or another, but for members to get back on procedural motions. I've experienced it when I was in the minority. Members were allowed ample time to return from unscheduled from unscheduled votes in this in this committee. Thank you.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

The gentleman yields, and the gentleman is— gentleman

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

from New York.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Uh, is the ranking member asking to be recognized?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Obviously, that's not true. When did that

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

The ranking member is not recognized. Does Ms. McIver wish to be recognized?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No, I'm still, I'm still talking.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

You haven't been recognized.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

You recognized me.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Would you like— I did not.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

You did.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

You want me to recognize you now? You recognized now.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Obviously, I was talking to you already, Mr. Garbarino, because I had been recognized.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Yeah,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

but that's not true. That is factually not true what you said.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

That is— I, I, I don't recall the date, but I recall it happening. I recall votes being held open. So because there— whether there were other votes or other committees, there was procedural motions. There were also markups where votes were held open or sometimes

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

claim my time. Look, all this is just delaying till somebody get here. And, Mr. Chairman, the rules are the rules. And, and for you to try to make them up as you go, that's not how you do it.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

gentleman yield.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

How am I recorded?

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

ask to be recorded as a no.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

Mr. Chairman, while we wait, can I introduce a UC request?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Gentleman has a unanimous consent request. You recognized.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

I would move to introduce a Truth Social post from Donald Trump from 9:43 a.m., railing against

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Mr. Chairman, we're in the middle of a vote. I don't think you can entertain a UC request.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Question. All right, I'm, I'm advised, although I'm quite generous with recognizing my colleagues across the aisle here, it's, uh, contrary to specifically to the rules for you to introduce unanimous consent. Will the gentleman let, let us close this vote out? We're happy to recognize. Of

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

course,

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

I'm happy to

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

reintroduce. Mr.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Chairman,

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

trying to be polite.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Mr. Chairman, Given that there seem to be some attendance issues, at least on the Republican side, I move that the committee do now adjourn.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

There's an open vote right now. You're welcome to make a motion to adjourn after we close this.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Chairman, point of order. A motion to adjourn is the highest privilege. So it would

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

not— during an open vote,

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

it would supersede

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

motion to adjourn. If you continue with your motion and enter your motion after we've closed this vote, and the chair will entertain that.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

But parliamentary inquiry, can I make a—

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

This vote is open, is going to remain open until— Chairman,

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

can I ask a question?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Been allowed to return.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Parliamentary inquiry. My understanding is that a motion to adjourn is the highest privilege and has to be acted on even if there is another open vote. Particularly a vote that's not being properly closed.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I agree with concurrence, which is reflective of my understanding. I respect Mr. Magaziner position, and it is privileged, but cannot be entertained during an open vote. And this is an open vote. So if you would like to enter a motion to adjourn, good sir, we will certainly entertain that once we've closed this vote.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

The madam is recognized.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Request a tally. The

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

gentleman is recognized.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Request a tally of the vote as it stands at the moment.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I will. The chair will request a tally at conclusion of the vote when we close the vote.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

Green from Texas. Mr. Chairman, may I be recognized?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Of course. My, my friend from Texas is recognized.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

Thank you, my friend. Uh, is it in order to make a motion to close the vote?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

I don't believe that a motion to close the vote is in order or required. We— the chair is keeping the vote open until members from either side of the aisle return to the chamber for this unscheduled procedural vote.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

And may I consider this a ruling of the chair?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

You can't challenge the ruling of the chair on a motion that's not recognized during an open vote. So if you continue with your— if you would like to submit a motion to adjourn, I would suggest you follow the rules there as well. But you'll have to wait until this vote is closed. Good sir,

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

what I would like to do is, as we have done with other motions is appeal the ruling of the chair.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

You're welcome to appeal the ruling of the chair if it's within the parameters of the rule, but that appeal will not be entertained during an open vote.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, you have made a decision by keeping the vote open. That is in effect a ruling, and Mr. Green is appealing that decision you've made.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we're not going to entertain a motion or an appeal while the vote is open, Mr., uh, Ranking Member. You know that.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Well, I know it, but it's not the rules.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

We've always—and ladies and gentlemen, I understand your position. Understand, you're making a stance in the Homeland Security Committee.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

We're just making

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

a

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

stance for you to follow the rules.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Historically and traditionally, this committee and every committee I've served on has kept votes open when you have an unscheduled procedural vote to allow members to return to the chamber and cast a vote.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

this happens if we're in the majority or you're in the majority. It's ideologically, you know, appropriate from either perspective to, to allow your members to return to the chamber. And it's certainly the historical and traditional means by which we deal with unscheduled procedural votes.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Who is that, please? Mr. Brecheen.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

Yeah, point of order, um, or parliamentary inquiry. I would put it to you, but I would put it to the Democrat opposition also, is I would love for someone to point out where the rules say that you as chairman of a committee do not have the discretion over this matter. The accusation that the rules are being violated, but yet where is it in the rules that does not give the chairman the allowance of the discretion to make this decision?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Mr. Brecheen yields. Clerk, how is Mr. Mackenzie recorded?

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Waiting on one more.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

Clerk will record a tally.

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

The motion to table has succeeded, and the chair recognizes Mr. Magaziner for questioning. You have a motion? I'm sorry, Mr. Magaziner, you have a motion?

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

No, I'll proceed. The

Rep. Clay Higgins (R-LA)SPEAKER_02

gentleman withdraws his intention. Mr. Garbarino.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the witnesses for being here. I'm sorry that you're experiencing this this today. It's not normal how the committee works. I'll tell you, it's amazing listening to the other side complain about our law enforcement officers, ICE, and saying that they should not be wearing masks even though they're rounding up MS-13 criminals who, in my district, would chop up children with machetes, whether that was in Brentwood or CI. But they want them to be de-masked and possibly face retribution. It's amazing. The first time that I'm asking they're asking for anybody to be de-masked. Antifa, they can wear their masks. The violent protesters that burned down cities, burned down cars, looted, they can keep their masks on. God forbid we hold criminals accountable and ask them to be de-masked. But our law enforcement officers, let's put them in danger for retribution from violent drug cartels and MS-13 who we know, whether in the US, or in Mexico, or in South America, or Central America, kill whoever they want, however they want, whenever they want. But let's put our law enforcement officers in harm's way. Ms. Hopper, organizations that aided and abetted illegal immigration activities must be held accountable. And the committee has identified countless nongovernmental organizations appear to have played a larger role in propping up the Biden administration's border crisis, helping play a role in obscuring the true extent of the lawlessness that occurred over the last four years. Can you highlight some of the most egregious examples of the activities NGOs engaged in in support of the Biden administration's open border policies? Thank you.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Absolutely. I think Florida's grand jury review of the whole unaccompanied children process is a great place to start if people haven't looked into that. There are numerous situations where you can look at the funding of what the NGOs took in, starting with the 990s. Then when you start to zoom in, you look at the program mismanagement, waste, fraud, and abuse. This isn't about the humanitarian mission. This isn't about the religious component of the organization, the nonprofit. We heard people bring up the religious component of the nonprofit. That has nothing to do with that. It has to do with how the humanitarian organization handled the program, handled these children, handled these funds, and handled the sponsors. And they didn't. They didn't handle any of that. Now, not all NGOs mismanaged children and mismanaged funds, but there were a lot of them that did, and taxpayers funded it. They paid for it, and they must be held accountable for it.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Thank you very much. Can you also elaborate on the extent to which the Biden administration's reliance on nongovernmental organizations endangered the lives of those children? I know you touched about it a little bit, but can you talk about, especially, the UACs? That is something that was we saw a lot of UACs being sent up to New York, to Long Island, my district, and there was no follow-up or very little follow-up after they were sent. Can you talk about that, please?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Yeah. So once NGOs were sending children to their sponsors, they were supposed to have an individual traveling with them to make sure that they got to their destination. We were actually on a flight with numerous UACs that were unaccompanied, couldn't speak the language, and airlines struggled to communicate with them. They were traveling alone. When we spoke with the flight attendants, they outlined numerous situations where children showed up at incorrect locations. CPS would have to be called because the sponsor either didn't show up, they were at the wrong location, they couldn't communicate with these unaccompanied children, and they were not supposed to be traveling alone. Once they got to that state, there wasn't a follow-up. There were two phone calls, and there was very little follow-up or coordination with state-level agencies to share that information for meaningful welfare checks.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Thank you very much for your answer. And Mr. Chairman, pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6) of House Rule XI, I have a motion requesting the committee subpoena former Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas. He refused to testify here in his own impeachment trial, and we believe the Americans should hear from him on his unlawful policies, especially the ones that we're addressing here today. So that's my motion, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion made by Mr. Garbarino.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Point of order. I'm sorry, I'll defer to the— Mr.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Chairman, I move to table the motion.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion to table. The motion to table is privileged and is non-debatable. All those in favor of the motion to table? Signify by saying aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

All those opposed, signify by saying no.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

In the opinion of the chairs, the nays have it.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman, ask for a recorded vote.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

A recorded vote has been requested on the motion to table. Uh, we will allow the clerk to resume his position. Mr. Clerk, if you will please call the roll.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Point of order. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I would like, uh, this committee to wait for other members to return from, uh, both sides of the aisle for the vote.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Kennedy, thank you for your input, but Mr. Clerk, if you would please call the roll.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Thank you for your consideration, Mr. Chairman. As, uh, you're clearly demonstrating, your partisanship in not allowing members of this committee to return as you held this open for at least 15 minutes on the last vote, which I've never seen anything so ridiculous in my entire 2-plus decades of service in government. This committee's broken the rules countless times today, and it continues.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Ogles,

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

if you, uh, open the vote so we can begin, is it possible for you to hold the vote open so other members can return as we just did previously, sir?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, if you will call the roll, members will have the opportunity to return as the vote is being called and as votes are being recorded. So please call the roll. I believe we also have votes that are occurring now on the House floor. So if you will call the roll on this matter.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Garbarino stated that Secretary Mayorkas did not come before this committee. He came dozens of times, but Stephen Miller has refused to come. Tom Homan has refused to come.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, votes have been called in the chamber. If you will please call the roll on this matter.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

McCaul votes no.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

No.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

No.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

No.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Aye.

Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_27

Aye.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

Aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any other members wish to record their vote? Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Please record me as a no. Mr. Goldman has entered the chamber. Mr. Goldman, would you like to be recorded?

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

I would. Aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any other additional members who wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, if you will please report the tally.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Uh, the motion— the motion to table is not agreed to.

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Yep,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

um, with votes being called, uh, the chair intends to call a recess. Uh, we will return back after votes have been called to then debate the motion. Uh, so at this time, the committee stands in recess. Uh, the committee will come to order. At this time, I would like to recognize a gentleman from New York, Mr. Garbarino. On his motion.

Chairman Andrew Garbarino (R-NY)SPEAKER_22

Mr. Chairman, out of respect for the witnesses that are here and the importance of this topic, I'm going to withdraw my motion.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion has been withdrawn. I will now recognize Ms. Ramirez for 5 minutes for her questioning.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking Member Thompson. It's been a long time in this committee, but I want to start by talking about civil society. Because civil society, in my opinion, is the first line of defense for our communities when authoritarianism, like the one that the president is attempting on our democracy, tries to attack us. And when Trump demands a public enemy and abuses our authority to target them, it is civil society that holds the line. I find it deeply undemocratic and un-American and unacceptable that my Republican colleagues are targeting more than 212 organizations across the country that assist community members, including immigrant children, since we've been talking about children as if you care about immigrant children, and asylum seekers to meet their basic needs. So I want to make sure that I remind my colleagues, since we've been here for a while, Secretary Noem and this administration, a couple of things. First of all, crossing a border to the U.S. to request the opportunity to apply for asylum is actually legal. Adjusting your status if you have a pathway to do so is legal. Supporting immigrants to apply for asylum, TPS, parole, and other forms of relief is legal. Supporting people to become United States citizens is also legal. Look, Republicans are going to lie and gaslight us all to help their fascist boss suppress dissent. Let me ask you: Who drags the reputations of essential nonprofits in our communities? I'll tell you who: authoritarians, bullies, these weak, wannabe kings who are scared of civil society because they uphold the democracy. This hearing has been unserious, especially since the illegal and unlawful activities are actually being perpetrated by the people in the White House, the cabinet, and Republican leadership. Tom Homan said during an interview that ICE officers and Border Patrol agents don't need any probable cause to walk up to someone, question them, and detain them based on their physical appearance, occupation, or location. So he basically said that if someone looks like me and a couple of colleagues here, they can walk up and question us. That is racial profiling, which is illegal. At the same time, Homan consistently complains about the communities, like the one I represent from Chicago, for knowing their rights, because if they know their rights, it's harder for him to violate them. Tom Homan's disregard for our rights is unconstitutional. And since Mr. Homan, a.k.a. the border czar, has the audacity to repeatedly brag about his legal immigration enforcement practices and disrespect due process, I demand he come before us to respond to the multitude of questions we have for him in person. But not just him: Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida is complicit in the construction of the Alligator Alcatraz and the violations of human rights being perpetrated there. Florida's replica of one of our most notorious prisons is a clear illustration of the brutality of the Trump administration. They unlawfully robbed funds from cities supporting asylum seekers to build a CECOT-like detention center in one of the most dangerous places in the United States. Yet DeSantis has the audacity to repeatedly brag about the inhumane conditions at Alligator Alcatraz and celebrate the violence being perpetrated with American tax dollars. Governor DeSantis must testify before this committee and provide answers to our questions about the atrocities being committed in his state, and he should also bring Secretary Marco Rubio. Because the truth is, we shouldn't be sending people to foreign countries when they may face torture and death with no chance for due process or appeal, particularly when they have not had their day in court and have not been subject to an extradition request. It is a gross violation of our shared humanity and our ideals as a nation to use money that's been appropriated to support refugees to disappear them to offshore prisons in countries they do not know and have no connection to. Yet Trump, Noem, and Rubio have repeatedly been caught red-handed, blatantly breaking the law, entering into backdoor agreements with foreign countries to deport people without due process. So, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move that this committee subpoena Thomas Douglas Homan, Ron DeSantis, and Marco Rubio.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Does the gentlelady yield back?

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

I would like to make sure that my subpoena request is in record and is considered.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Yes, ma'am. Do you yield back?

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

I do.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Is there a motion?

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Mr. Chairman, I move— I move to table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

A motion to table has been offered. The gentleman that moves the motion to table, this is, as we well know now, a privileged and non-debatable motion. All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by saying aye.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Any opposed? No.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

In the opinion of the chairs, the ayes have it. Is there a motion?

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_12

I'd like a recorded vote.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There has been a motion for a recorded vote. Mr clerk,. thank you for your yeoman's work today. Mr. Clerk, if you will please call the roll.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Rep. Morgan Luttrell (R-TX)SPEAKER_10

Apologize.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Strong. Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there any members who wish to record their vote?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Guest votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Would you please report the tally?

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Point of order. Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Yes.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Are we going to leave the, voting tally open until everybody gets here, as we did earlier? There are people that are still outstanding, missing votes on both sides of the table, bipartisan.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Ms. McIver, would you like to be recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Would the clerk report the tally?

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Mr. Chairman, are we going to leave the—

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Would the clerk report the tally? You're not recognized, Mr. Kennedy.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The opinion of the chair based upon the recorded vote, the motion prevails, and this motion is in fact tabled. At this point, I would recognize Mr. Strong for 5 minutes.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Chairman Guest. To our witnesses, I want to apologize to each of you. I know that y'all have walked into a spitwad fight here, and I thank each of you for being here before us today. The American people deserve details, accountability, and especially when it comes to their taxpayer dollars, they deserve answers. You think about it, in recent years, far too much federal funding has gone to NGOs with little oversight, questionable practices, and, in some cases, connections that raise serious red flags. In 2021, ICE awarded an $86 million no-bid contract to Endeavors for hotel stays for illegal immigrants. Mr. Howell, could you broadly talk about the risk to border security and accountability when the federal government outsources key functions to nongovernment organizations?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Absolutely. So, there's a clear break in the paper trail and accountability. Once the money leaves DHS, there's little in the way of reporting requirements as to how it's spent, how it's maintained, where the illegals go, and all sorts of other standards that relate to condition. For example, in these nonprofit facilities, not much in the way of licensing requirements or or living standards are are there. Yet, you have all this attention on ICE facilities for quite the opposite reasons. And so, it's a vastly different ecosystem.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

In his testimony, Mr. Rosas noted that certain non-government organizations were present during the recent unrest in Los Angeles, and many have played a role in obstructing federal operations. Mr. Howell, has your team identified any instances where federally funded non-government organizations appear to be aligned with political advocacy groups or campaigns in ways that could raise concerns about conflicts of interest or inappropriate influence?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Absolutely. I think the most recent former Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, who was impeached coming from Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society is an example of how this whole system works and the very cozy relationship between the nonprofits and governmental actors. As it relates to the violence we see in the streets, the foot soldiers and organizers, I would say, are one degree removed away from those receiving government funds, the giant organizations like Catholic Charities and others who do a lot more in terms of public advocacy. It's a very complex ecosystem, all pushing in the same direction.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Turning to Ms. Hopper, DHS OIG previously found that nearly 60% of certain Emergency Food and Shelter programs reimburses lacked adequate receipts, didn't turn in receipts. Does this suggest a pattern of, a pattern of gross financial mismanagement or potential fraud among NGOs receiving DHS grants?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

It absolutely does. When you're unable to provide receipts, And we have firsthand accounts of facilities serving rice and beans and charging the US government a steak and lobster diet. That's a problem.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Ms. Hopper, in your view, how did the Federal Government's emphasis on rapid placement over thorough screening create opportunities for traffickers to exploit the Unaccompanied Alien Children Program?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

They absolutely did. We interviewed incarcerated cartel members that knew when this administration took over that they were not going to have access to the same pipelines and taxpayer dollars that they had access to before. They know that when unaccompanied children came in, they would provide the name, number, and address of the sponsor, cartel-controlled, so that the child could be put to work to pay off the debt that they owed their smuggler or trafficker.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Hopper, beyond the serious risk of exploitation and trafficking, there are growing concerns that some unaccompanied alien children may be vulnerable to recruitment by violent gangs like MS-13 or Tren de Aragua. Is that something that has come up in your investigations and research?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

It absolutely has. With the open borders, we had numerous transnational criminal organizations, criminal networks, bad actors come into this country, and with them, they are looking for recruits. And so when you have young teenagers looking for—they have food instability, housing instability, and they have a debt to pay off, they are going to pay that off by working with cartel members.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Thank you. To close out my time, one issue that has been raised by state and local law enforcement is the lack of communication by NGOs as they facilitate the movement and settlement of these aliens in local communities. Keeping law enforcement out of the loop creates public safety concerns and likewise does a disservice to the settlement of migrants. For any of our witnesses, can you speak to why these NGOs were encouraged not to work with local law enforcement and some of the downstream implications of these poor policies?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

It's because that would have gotten in the way of moving as many illegal aliens around the country as humanly possible, which was completely the opposite of the goal of the Biden administration and the NGOs. That's why they don't cooperate.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

They didn't cooperate because they didn't have to cooperate contractually. They weren't required to, and so they didn't.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

I concur with my fellow witnesses.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes Mr. Magaziner for 5 minutes of questioning Questioning .

Rep. Seth Magaziner (D-RI)SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Chairman. Donald Trump said he would focus on deporting criminals and people with removal orders, but that is not what his administration has been doing. Instead, the Trump administration has been going after innocent, hardworking people who have committed no crimes, including children, including US citizens. Children, grandparents, veterans, students who express unpopular political opinions, and yes, even United States citizens. The latest data from Donald Trump's Department of Homeland Security, their own data, shows that more than 70% of those in ICE detention have no criminal convictions. They are locking people up who have tried immigrating to the United States the legal way, who presented themselves at ports of entry and asked for asylum, people like Andry Hernandez Romero, a gay makeup artist from Venezuela who came to the United States seeking asylum. Listen to this. He did not enter the country illegally. He presented himself at a port of entry near San Diego, tried to do it the legal way, and what did the Trump administration do? They put him on a plane to El Salvador, to a prison where he is still today. He has never been convicted of any crimes. He did not even enter the United States illegally. We have been asking the administration, Can you give us a proof of life? Can you let us know that he's still alive? And they refuse to do so. They deported a mother from Louisiana along with her 7-year-old daughter and 4-year-old son, both of whom are US citizens, and the 4-year-old has stage 4 cancer. The mother of these children has said that she did not consent to having her children deported with her. Secretary Noem was here, and she said under oath that she had documentation proving that the mother had consented. She said she would provide it. She still has not. Representative Swalwell and I followed up with her. She still has not presented any documentation, any rationale for why this 4-year-old US citizen with cancer was deported to a country that is not his own. And so when I hear my colleagues and when I hear our witnesses saying that they care about the lives of the children, I'm sorry, you have no credibility if you are not prepared to call out the injustice of deporting a 4-year-old with cancer, a 7-year-old with leukemia. Where's your— where's your sympathy for those children? No, Donald Trump gets a free pass always, no matter what he does, from this crowd. That's how we know that what we're hearing is political today, not a real concern for the children who have been caught up in all of this. There's more. This family in Oregon, four children, all US citizens, these four children along with their parents, who have no criminal record, were put into detention by ICE for two weeks in a Border Patrol facility that is not designed for long-term detention, a 10-by-10 cell that these five were in. They were just released after two weeks. These US citizen children, where's the concern for them? We know why this is happening. It's because on May 21st, Stephen Miller summoned ICE officials to Washington and ordered them to make mass arrests, not to focus on criminals. He said, Go after people at Home Depot and 7-Eleven, because, again, unlike what President Trump promised, that they were going to go after the worst of the worst, Stephen Miller, who apparently is calling the shots, ordered ICE to round up everybody regardless of whether they are hardened criminals or not. Please, someone tell me: What threat to our country do these children pose, or their parents, who have lived here and worked here for years and committed no crimes in the country? Is this the worst of the worst? Of course not. This is the same Stephen Miller, by the way, who was the architect of the family separation policy under the first Trump administration, during which 4,600 children were removed from their parents, some as young as 10 months old. Where's the concern for those 4,600 children? I haven't heard a word from any of our partisan witnesses or any of my partisan colleagues on the other side. You lose your credibility when you refuse to acknowledge the humanity of those 4,600 children who were separated purposefully from their families by the first Trump administration, or the children who are being unlawfully detained and deported today. I'll leave you with this. Pope Leo, His Holiness, posted on X about the Trump administration deporting people to El Salvador. He said, quote, "Do you not see the suffering? Is your conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet?" This is not what the American people want. Let's focus on going after real criminals, not children, not US citizens, not people who are just trying to make a living who pose no threat. Let's focus on the criminals. I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes Mr. Brecheen for his five minutes of questioning.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We tend to find tactics of distraction, distraction, distraction, distraction. It's what we see happening with people that are trying to stop ICE from deportation efforts. We see that happening in the committee. And H.R. 2 is not law. What H.R. 2 was designed to do is to stop the $6 billion—that's an entire state budget. Many of us think about the size of your state budget. $6 billion under the Biden administration went to these non-government organizations, many of which are 100% federally funded, like Endeavors, that reached the size of Save the Children. Ms. Hopper, you mentioned that in your testimony. Save the Children, been around for generations. It's designed for—that is privately funded. This Endeavors non-government organization went from $52 million and went to over $1 billion because of government funding. Ms. Hopper, you talked about the NGOs being complicit. I don't know how many were stirred by your conversation about the 17-year-old child that was placed with someone that was discovered from the Office of Refugee Resettlement had tattoos resembling that of MS-13 gang members. It was reported. Supervisors overruled that. A month or two later, the 17-year-old is found dead. A man passed out, has his pants depantsed, sexual activity being absolutely implied. And you're talking about all the different ways that these NGOs who got rich, hundreds, $700,000 CEO figures for the CEO of Endeavors. And that man needs to be held accountable, Jon Allman. We're talking about children that were ushered into the interior of the United States. These NGOs profited from it. Cozy relationships with the Democrat administration. Who knows what political payback there is? Who knows how many of those dollars that are still retained, when you're talking a billion dollars retained by these organizations? Who knows how many of the activities that are trying to stop deportation are still—those dollars are reproducing after themselves? Who knows how many times we will also see in New York City people being taught how to evade ICE, we know as NGOs? This is a lawmaking exercise. We hold these hearings to hold people accountable for the misuse of taxpayer funds. This is evil. And we haven't solved it, and we have to have legislation to stop any future administration from co-opting FEMA dollars and repurposing for these nefarious ends. All right, Mr. Howell, you all did a project where you took these NGOs, these 230 NGOs, some of them out of country helping bring people in, some of them in country working as an Uber service. You all did a $30,000 data search on cell phones, and you found among these 230 organizations of which 15 United Nations doll- spends by the by the U.S. government, funneled through the UN, ended up into some of these NGOs. You all found that, you tracking 30,000 cell phones, that the Uber service, these organizations getting rich, went to every congressional district in this committee hearing, not just every congressional district in this hearing, every congressional district in the United States, moving unaccompanied minors, children to these sponsors. Only four congressional districts out of 435 congressional districts where we were not where where these NGOs were were not moving people. The the gentleman who raped and murdered Laken Riley was among the list who had two trips where he went to New York City paid for at NGO expense. I'm sorry, taxpayer expense funneled through these nongovernmental organizations. I need to let you talk.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

You're absolutely right, sir. So for our study back in 2022, when this country towns across it were seeing flights being dropped off in the middle of the night with no advance notice. Citizens were living in fear. We decided to do a small, very small sample size of that huge mass of the NGO blob. We looked at only 30 locations for a 1-month period, grabbed the cell phone movement in and out of them, 30,000 devices. And from that very small sample size, they went to every single congressional district.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

I've got 19 seconds left. I want to say this. You also report that in New York you saw that these funds were being used for shelter programs, providing false residency documents to illegals, showing them how to provide false documents. Other NGO you found in Mexico tied into this, illegal alien camps that had flyers teaching people, telling people don't forget to vote for Biden. You had NGO, NGOs advising illegals to lie to law enforcements to evade ICE. All a part of the organization's information. We need to spend more time on this, because this could still continue in the future absent legislation prohibiting and cranking the screws down to make sure this is never repeated. I yield.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentleman yields. The chair recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy, for 5 minutes.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

Thank you, Chairman. Earlier, I entered into the record a press release from this Republican-led committee stating that the U.S. Conference of Bishops and Catholic Charities USA are under investigation, directly contradicting what was stated by my Republican colleagues in this committee earlier in our deliberations. I'd like to enter into the record a letter from Pope Francis to the bishops of the United States of America back on February 10th, 2025. Pope Francis sent a letter to the U.S. Conference of Bishops rebuking the Trump administration on its mass deportation policies, which included the deportation of U.S. citizens, mind you. And just a couple of months later, what seems like retribution from the Trump administration and congressional Republicans, now Catholic Charities USA and U.S. Conference of Bishops are being investigated and funding is being cut to the humanitarian work that they're doing across our country. It's deeply offensive to Catholics across this nation, and it reeks of anti-Catholicism, and it needs to stop. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. As is the case with all of our districts, there are many organizations that do incredible work that help resettle new Americans and refugees. We lose sight of the selfless humanitarian work that these local nongovernment organizations do when we rope them in with the partisan grievances that we're hearing here today. In my own district, there's hundreds of refugees that have settled in just the last 3 months alone. But in the last year across our country, over 100,000 refugees have come to this great nation who have faced unimaginable hardship based on religion, race, nationality, political opinions, or sexual orientation. And they rely on the housing, case management, nutrition, and job placement services provided by these NGOs. And they're doing their best to make ends meet, to become a part of a new community. And, while that is critical, life-altering support made possible in large part to the federal government investment in these programs, these programs and funding streams are being cut by this administration and congressional Republicans. They're not only affecting jobs and livelihoods across the country in every single community represented on this committee, but they're forcing the workers to be laid off, and hence the work that they were doing to help new Americans assimilate into our country is not being done. Refugees can no longer rely on these services. Workers can no longer rely on support from the federal government to keep the lights on. And meanwhile, American people are watching as people, including U.S. citizens and children with cancer, are grabbed off the street by masked ICE agents in plainclothes, migrants are mistreated at detention centers by the administration's Department of Homeland Security, and people who came here legally to seek a better life see their futures in jeopardy under Trump's policies. And finally, I want to share my remarks about an incredibly pressing issue that this committee would be better off addressing and is suited to explore. It's already been addressed today, but all of our hearts are broken about what transpired in Texas with the flooding just a week and a half ago. And in Kerr County, Texas, surrounding areas experiencing the unimaginable devastation and loss of life: over 132 lives lost, over 100 still missing. And in the aftermath of this tragedy, current FEMA employees sounding the alarm about the Trump administration's slow and delayed response to Central Texas, and reporting suggesting that FEMA failed to answer many calls, thousands of calls from victims in the days following the flooding. So make no mistake, emergency responders and local officials in Texas carried out acts of heroism to save lives and pick up the pieces of the lives that were shattered. But this committee has an obligation to investigate how the Trump administration's months-long degradation of FEMA, from defunding to layoffs to consolidation, played a role in these delays. 72 hours it took them to get people on the ground from FEMA into the flood zone to save lives and to help those poor peoples in that horrific disaster. And I'm so disappointed that there's not been more of a measured response from Republicans to address the authority and oversight of this committee. I've sent a letter with Congressman Gabe Amo, the ranking member of the House subcommittee with oversight over emergency weather alerts, asking the administration to address these issues. I ask you, Chairman, and my colleagues, it's our responsibility to conduct this oversight in an urgent manner moving forward. Let's address these real threats and not chase political distractions. And on that note, I'd like to also, with unanimous consent, put into the record this op-ed from the former FEMA head, Deanne Criswell: Cuts to Federal Response Programs Guarantee Future Disasters. I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, the gentleman yields. Without objection, be entered into the record. The gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane, for 5 minutes.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing today on how NGOs facilitated the Biden border crisis. You can see our colleagues are very upset that we're having this hearing today. They don't want to talk about this stuff. They don't want to talk about the 300,000 kids that we still don't know where they are. They're upset that President Trump got elected. They're upset that he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and we're backing him up here in Congress. This is what the American people voted for because they saw four years of the carnage that these open-border policies plagued on the United States. And we're talking about the NGOs that they used as middlemen to carry out their operations, like the Catholic Charities they used to facilitate, normalize, and accelerate illegal immigration into this country. Ms. Hopper, you've worked closely with trafficking victims and survivors. I'd like to explore the role that the NGOs have played in enabling the trafficking and exploitation of unaccompanied alien children. Under the last administration, what safeguards were put in place to protect vulnerable unaccompanied children?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

I previously discussed the post-placement welfare checks, which consisted of 2 phone calls. Again, if the sponsor didn't answer, The, the case was no longer followed up on. But there was also a notice of concern hotline where people could report concerns about the unaccompanied child's safety. But what this administration found was from August 2023 to January of 2025, 65,000 calls went unanswered. Those calls spanned from, you know, complaints about stale bread all the way to being abused. To one case where a child's call was reporting that grown men were coming into his room at night and they were touching him. Nothing happened with that call. That call went unanswered until this administration took office, went through those 65,000 calls, made follow-ups, conducted a welfare check, and now that child has been rescued and that sponsor has been arrested. These are the safeguards that were put in place, but accountability and oversight was not had.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

So you're telling this committee that the Biden administration, while they were letting all of these unaccompanied minors into the country, and as we've talked about today, they weren't keeping track of them, they issued these kids a hotline that they could call if they had trouble with the sponsor family that they were put with. And you're saying that 65,000 calls to this hotline designated to protect these kids went unanswered? Is that what you're telling this committee?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Yes, sir.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Wow. That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I believe you also said, Miss Hopper, that according to your research, it was easier to adopt a pet or a dog than it was to get one of these children. Is that what you said?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

I said that it was hard— it was easier to get a child, yes, than to adopt a dog. You actually had to provide more paperwork to adopt a pet from a pet shelter than you did to sponsor a child.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Yeah. And Think about it, guys. This is exactly why the American people are so upset. This is why they voted for the president. And this is why they voted for this agenda. To not only remove people from this country, to secure our borders, but to find these kids. I mean, this is, this is completely atrocious in a day and age where we're starting to wake up to the realities of sex trafficking and what's going on with these kids. They let all these kids in. We still don't know where over 300,000 of these kids are. And you're, you're sitting here testifying, saying that they gave a hotline for these kids to report if they were okay, if they needed anything. And 65,000 calls went unanswered. Do you know how many staffers the administration assigned to answering these phones and helping these kids?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

One.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

One staffer. Any, any idea how many hours a day this staffer was working?

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Maybe that's why there were 65,000 calls that weren't answered from these little kids, huh? Unbelievable. Thank you. I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from New Jersey, Ms. McIver, for 5 minutes.

Rep. LaMonica McIver (D-NJ)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I first want to start off by just advising that witnesses should definitely come here with the facts. One of the witnesses today stated that I was arrested, and that's a complete lie. And I want to put that on the record. Mr. Chairman, this hearing is a shame, a sham, and a complete disgrace. Just because Republicans don't want to see it doesn't mean it's not true. The charities the majority is targeting are doing the Lord's work, quite literally. Republicans are trying to misrepresent and undermine and attack the work of these charities do— excuse me— these charities do to assist the most vulnerable and underserved, all while quoting scripture from the Bible. No matter what narrative my colleagues across the aisle try to spin, the truth is that these religious organizations and other nonprofits are not political. They seek to provide aid to those who are fleeing violence and seeking asylum. To every person working at the charities, religious organizations, and other NGOs that are the subject of this hearing, I say this to you: thank you, and I am sorry. Thank you for providing the services and resources that our government has failed to provide to desperate people who are in need. And I am sorry that Republicans are trying to intimidate you and prevent you from carrying out this critical work. I am appalled that this hearing is being used as an attempt to target religious organizations and prevent them from serving their communities in accordance with their faith. Meanwhile, the Republican majority has not done an ounce of oversight of the Trump administration, even as Trump and his administration tear apart DHS. In January, Trump installed unelected billionaire Elon Musk as the leader of DOGE and empowered him to derail and demonize critical functions across the government, including at DHS. Elon has long had massive, unexplained ties to China. He did not file any kind of financial disclosure, even as he took a role in overhauling the federal government. But did the Republican majority demand any information on Musk's conflicts? Did they ask questions about his ties to the Chinese government, a topic that draws their interest in just about every context every week on this committee? No, they did not. Instead, they turned a blind eye to DOGE and installed unqualified staffers across DHS, gained access to sensitive security systems, and drove off untold numbers of dedicated civil servants carrying out important missions to secure our homeland. DOGE has been dismantling and reshaping DHS for 6 months now. Has the Republican majority held a single hearing or called a single witness to examine these massive changes to the department? No, they have not. More recently, Elon Musk and Donald Trump had a very messy breakup. Perhaps men are just too fragile and emotional for these jobs. But I digress. But I digress. We did, in fact, learn a few things during this breakup. On June 6th, Musk tweeted, Time to drop the really big bomb: Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason that— that is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJT. Wow, now that's some inside information. Elon Musk, Donald Trump's right-hand man who spent hundreds of millions of dollars to help get Trump elected, says the president is tied to the notorious child sex predator. And look what we're talking about today. And indeed, over the past several days, Trump has moved to permanently squash the release of the Epstein files. Now, my Republican colleagues have long expressed a desire to fight human trafficking. Woo-hoo, talking about it today, but yet scared to call out, to ask the administration to release the Epstein files. Surely that must be something we can all get behind. Surely we can all agree that if Elon Musk has evidence that Donald Trump is or has ever been involved in child sex trafficking, then Musk should be compelled to come share his evidence with this committee and the public. Now, I'm sure some of my colleagues may argue that Musk is just blowing smoke, but who's to say? Let's find out. I might have my doubts, but if you think that under oath, Musk would admit he does not actually have any evidence to back up his claims, then great. Let's find out. Let's do some real work on this committee. With that, I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentlelady yields back. The chair recognizes Mr. Ogles from the state of Tennessee for 5 minutes.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to enter into the record for unanimous consent a news story by NewsNation updated on June 7th, 2023, by Mr. Ventura and Mr. Marcum talking about the NGOs using tax dollars to relocate migrants. And quite frankly,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

without objection, the document will be entered into the record.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And And when you look at their track record, and there's some statistics I'll quote, and most of this can be directed at you, Ms. Hopper, but to the other two witnesses, feel free to chime in. We'll just have an open dialogue. Is they were clearly putting profit over the safety of these children. Now, my colleagues on the other side have spent most of the day disrupting this hearing, stalling this hearing with procedural votes. Meanwhile, we have 325,000 children that are unaccounted for. We have 65,000 calls of concern that went unanswered. And yet, all they want to talk about is Trump and Elon Musk, and some tweet that has since been redacted. I mean, it's nonsense. And, and by the way, one of my colleagues mentioned religion, religion saying that we we over here are righteous. And yet I do believe, if you look at the context of this hearing, they're the ones that are quoting the Pope and the Catholic bishops and all the other stuff. Meanwhile, I want to talk about the children. How do we find these 300,000 kids? How many of them are being sexually abused right now? I think in your testimony 70%, or one of your testimony 70% of the records revolving children were had were falsified. 80% of the women coming into an El Paso shelter were sexually assaulted. Where's the outrage on the other side, folks? That's what this is about. This should be a nonpartisan committee. We're talking about the safety of the homeland. We're talking about 300,000 children that right now could be being raped systematically and trafficked. And they want to talk about the boogeyman. I want to talk about the boogeyman, too. I want to talk about all the, all the predators and the gangbangers and the murderers that were allowed into this country. Just in Nashville, the ICE raid, where they arrested murderers, rapists, traffickers, child traffickers, that's who they're protecting. Let's talk about these 300,000 kids. How do we find them? How do we undo this mess? And oh, by the way, the idea that none of these folks are criminals—if you came into this country on false pretense, that is a crime. They're not migrants, they're illegal immigrants, and they're breaking our laws, and I've had enough of this crap. Let's talk about the facts, the facts around this hearing and these children. Ms. Hopper.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

There needs to be complete coordination with the state and local agencies. They know that UACs were sent to their specific districts, their counties. There's a database on the ORR website specifically outlining how many UACs were sent to to certain counties and cities across all 50 states. And so, with the help of the local, state, and federal agencies, that would be a good place to start. But a lot of these state agencies are stonewalling and blocking our efforts because they want to protect illegal aliens over finding unaccompanied children.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Mr. Howell,

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

one of the best ways to find these children is to dramatically ramp up worksite enforcement by ICE. A lot of these kids are working in factory farms, weed farms, all across the country. And until ICE begins increasing their activities there, I don't think we will find a lot of these missing kids.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Mr. Rosas.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Congressman, what I'll say, I'll echo that they came here because they wanted to work, obviously in horrible conditions. And what I'll say, and what I'll address, is that it's false to say that these raids that are happening are not targeting the worst of the worst. I was with Border Patrol in Los Angeles County just recently, and they did an operation at a Home Depot, and they found a convicted pedophile, because he's there looking for work. And those are the people that they want to hire to bring them into their homes around their families? It doesn't work that way. So, I would concur that worksite operations need to increase, not decrease by any stretch.

Rep. Andrew Ogles (R-TN)SPEAKER_17

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the importance of this hearing, the topic. I thank you to the witnesses. But as we look at the systematic trafficking that we've seen across this country, Ms. Hopper, you're an expert on this. When you look at the distribution networks that the cartels have into our country, a distribution network, by the way, that would rival FedEx or the United Postal Service, and their ability to move product. And for them, product is human trafficking. Product is kids and women. And so with that, I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

gentleman yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Puerto Rico, Mr. Hernandez.

Rep. Pablo Hernandez (D-PR)SPEAKER_25

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to just briefly raise my voice in favor of NGOs and the service they provided. As a law student, I worked with NGOs dedicated to immigrants, but not just to make sure that they could normalize their immigration status. I worked with immigrants on behalf of a cause that I think all Republicans support. I worked with immigrants to help them assimilate to United States culture and identity. I helped them study for their U.S. citizenship exams, and I could see their hope, their commitment. I would even say they were more patriotic and committed to this nation than many people who are born and raised here. I worked with NGOs to help victims of domestic violence who fled their home countries with their children, fleeing from terrible, terrible, terrible life circumstances, and people who found hope and security in this nation, and people that I was proud to see this nation welcome to provide them safety and security and a brighter future. So I really profoundly regret to see this Congress, to see this committee attack NGOs so broadly under a false pretext that this is really to protect the people. We are attacking people. We are attacking institutions that help people. And I want to make sure that history reflects the side that we, the Democratic Caucus, this side of the aisle, stand on today. Thank you, and I yield back.

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Mr. Chairman,

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

I'm sorry, who wants to be recognized?

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

Uh, Crane from Arizona.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Miss Crane,

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

uh, request to enter into the record from oversight project article track— tracking movement of illegal aliens from NGOs to the US Interior.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, it shall be admitted into the record. Thank

Rep. Elijah Crane (R-AZ)SPEAKER_21

you,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Thompson,

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

I'd like to enter into the record the statement of Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn, New York, in which he states, From our Catholic faith perspective, the issue is ultimately about human beings.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

without objection, will be entered into the record. With the gentleman yielding, the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from South Carolina, Ms.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_26

Thank you, Chairman Guest, and thank you to our witnesses for your patience today. This hearing is important, and I think it's it's crucial that we know the role that the NGOs played in the invasion of our country. While the Biden administration opened the doors, the NGOs fueled the invasion. They provided or coordinated transportation to the interior of the country, along with food, shelter, legal fees, and more, all with your tax dollars. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit for the record this piece of The Free Press titled Nonprofits Are Making Billions Off the Border Crisis.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, it shall be entered into the record.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_26

So Global Refuge, one of these Trojan horses, listed $202 million in revenue in 2022, up from $50 million in 2018, which is 80%—86% of that money came directly from the taxpayers. Another organization which we've already talked about today, Endeavors, received 99.6% of its revenue from taxpayers. And these groups made profits by forcing us to pay for the invasion of our own country. So my first question, and I would really like to leave it open for any of you to please feel free to comment, but it's kind of simple. How many illegals did these bad actors bring in, and how much of our hard-earned tax dollars did they spend? And did they even attempt to determine if any of the illegals that flooded our homeland were violent criminals?

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Congresswoman, what I'll say is is that it's also not just the unaccompanied minors that were processed through. There wasn't DNA testing being done with family units who were being presented and turning themselves over to Border Patrol. So there were, quote, unquote, family units that these NGOs also helped and processed. But,

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

You ask any any border official, any border enforcement, they'll tell you that they rent kids out to act as family units or they're trafficking these kids as family units. So, I know, understandably, we're talking a lot about the unaccompanied minors, and that should definitely have a big focus. But we also can't forget the fake family units that took advantage of the Biden administration not doing DNA testing to ensure that those were actual families.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

That was a very good question. Thank you so much for that. Between the ports of entry, it's really hard to determine how many bad actors and criminal networks came into the interior of the country during the Biden-Harris administration. I know it's frustrating to hear that we keep mentioning the Biden-Harris administration, but when you have over 300,000 children that went missing under that administration, it is worth asking because they are still missing. With these criminal networks, we worked with another nonprofit in California. Again, we're not against nonprofits. We are against the ones that take taxpayer dollars and mismanage the funds and abuse the funds, to reiterate for the record. But they found numerous cell phones of smugglers. The GUARD Initiative works with local law enforcement and turns over cell phones that include data as far as how to obtain a child once you're in the United States, what pathways to take, and even include the nuclear posture of the United States. These are not your average construction worker. And when you say they have no criminal background, please understand that that might be in the United States. You don't know where they came from, their country of origin, what their criminal background was in their country of origin, on top of the fact that when they had their false documents, if their document said Mickey Mouse, that is what Border Patrol wrote down. So how do we know what their backgrounds truly are from their home countries when we did no meaningful checking of the false documents that they provided to our agencies? Thank you.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Congresswoman, to answer the heart of your question, I think it's virtually all of the illegals that were released into the interior. Just like it's virtually impossible for an illegal to get to the southern border without going through cartel custody, it is virtually impossible for the illegals, once they are released, to not reap a direct or indirect benefit from the nonprofit system. That's why this is so detestable. They had built a system in parallel with the cartels. The NGOs and the Biden administration operated as the final chain in the link of this human smuggling, not only of children, but of everyone who came illegally.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_26

Thank you very much. It's very disheartening, and I appreciate your insight on this. And with that, I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentlelady yields back. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Carter, for 5 minutes.

Rep. Troy Carter (D-LA)SPEAKER_28

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wholeheartedly support all of my Democratic colleagues' efforts today to demand information and accountability about the cruel and profoundly un-American mass deportation agenda being undertaken by the Donald Trump administration and his allies, as well as this administration's dereliction of duty in federal disaster response amid hurricane season. However, I would like to take a few moments to highlight a critical financial issue affecting families and businesses in Louisiana: flood insurance. Flood risk is not just a coastal issue. It affects all of us. Since 1996, flood events have occurred in all 50 states and 99% of them in U.S. counties. That means nearly every single American community has experienced economic, environmental, or emotional toll of flooding. With climate change intensifying the frequency and severity of major storms, the need for accessible, affordable, and transparent flood insurance has never been more urgent. Unfortunately, FEMA's implementation of Risk Rating 2.0, the new methodology for calculating National Flood Insurance Program, NFIP, premiums, have created serious affordability problems for our constituents. Let me be clear, Congress did not pass legislation to mandate Risk Rating 2.0, nor did we have any meaningful input in its development. FEMA claims that this overhaul falls under its administrative authority. However, FEMA bypassed a formal rulemaking process, conducted no economic impact analysis, and declined to brief Congress before the implementing of one of the most sweeping changes to NFIP in its history. In fact, FEMA has continuously refused to release its full Risk Rating 2.0 methodology. Policyholders do not have access to their property-level rating factors inputs, except for the few listed on the declaration page, which are made available only after coverage is purchased. The lack of transparency is unacceptable. In my district, the consequences are real and deeply concerning. Premiums are rising drastically and in some cases unpredictably, exacerbating our ongoing housing affordability crisis. Louisiana is not alone in this issue. There are over 1.5 million policyholders in Florida and approximately 700,000 in Texas, among others. On average, Risk Rating 2.0, NFIP policies will cost $1,800, representing a 103.6% increase over legacy rates. There are 17 states with higher average rates than Louisiana. Rates will increase by over 50% in 41 states. Some of the states with the highest average risk rates include Maine at 183% rate increase, West Virginia at 171%, Mississippi at 149%, Florida at 131%, and New York at 85%. Among metropolitan areas, my district in New Orleans has the second highest average insurance coverage behind only Miami. For working families already struggling to keep up with the mortgage payments, high insurance costs could mean having to choose between flood protection and other essential needs. Many have opted out of NFIP altogether, leaving them and their entire communities vulnerable and uninsured in the face of disaster. Within just two years of implementing Risk Rating 2.0, NFIP lost over 215,000 policyholders or nearly 5% of all policies. States that saw the biggest decline in policyholders were West Virginia, losing nearly 20% of policies, Oklahoma, about 18%, and Texas, with 15% decline. Not far behind, over one in 10 policyholders Louisiana has opted out. This is not a partisan issue. I have been highly critical of Risk Rating 2.0 throughout the Biden administration, with even former Secretary Mayorkas acknowledge that Risk Rating 2.0 is flawed. Yet, during both Biden and Trump administrations, FEMA continue to push forward without correcting course, listening to Congress, or properly engaging the people most affected by these changes. The bottom line is this: we need a flood insurance system that protects, not penalizes, American families. It should be grounded in science, equity, and economic reality, but also accountability and transparency. Congress must have a role in shaping the future of the NFIP, and our constituents deserve to know how decisions impacting their homes and livelihoods are made. Mr. Chair, I'd like to enter into the record this research from the Coalition of Sustainable Flood Insurance, which lays out details on this issue. Without objection. As well as a letter from the entire delegation, Louisiana delegation, bipartisan, Republican, Democrat. My dear friend Mr. Higgins, who's not sitting here now, also signed off on this letter.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection. It will also be admitted.

Rep. Troy Carter (D-LA)SPEAKER_28

I urge my colleagues to— this letter demanding information on how public mitigation projects have impacted Louisiana to date. We have not gotten any information. I urge my colleagues to support the bipartisan, common-sense legislative efforts that will bring oversight, affordability, accountability, fairness back to the National Flood Insurance Program, because flood insurance isn't something that we should wait. However, we need to do this now. Mr. Chairman, pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6), Rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena Elizabeth Asche, assistant administrator of the Federal Insurance Directorate of FEMA, to provide this committee with the details and agencies has been withholding from Congress.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Is there a motion?

Rep. Troy Carter (D-LA)SPEAKER_28

There is a motion. Move to table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion to table. In here somewhere. Uh, the gentleman moves to table. Uh, the motion to table is privileged and non-debatable. Uh, we will allow a few moments for members to return to the committee room, as the room, uh, let the record reflect, is very vacant at this point. Uh, so We will suspend momentarily for that to take place. I'm sorry.

Rep. Troy Carter (D-LA)SPEAKER_28

They come back.

Rep. August Pfluger (R-TX)SPEAKER_09

Crypto noticed.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

There has been a motion to table in this matter brought forth by Mr. Evans. The motion is privileged. It is non-debatable. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

All those opposed, please signify by saying no.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. Is there a motion?

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Motion to have a recorded vote.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion for recorded vote has been requested by the ranking member. If the clerk would please call the roll.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_20

No.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there any other members who wish to be recorded? Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Guest votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

If you will please report the totals

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

In the opinion of the chair, based on the recorded vote, the motion passes and the request has been tabled. Mr. Carter, did you yield back? I was trying to think. Have you yielded the rest of your time? I believe, if I'm not mistaken. All right, at this time then, the chair would recognize Mr. Evans for 5 minutes for his questioning.

Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, of course, to the witnesses for coming. And Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit for the record this committee's report from last year in which then-CBP chief patrol agents told the committee that, quote, "NGOs will facilitate the migrants' travel plans to wherever that's going to be while they wait for their immigration hearing," and, quote, "once they're released from our custody, the NGOs then provide them with potentially transportation up to the Phoenix area or other areas of the interior to help them make travel arrangements, things like that."

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, the document will be entered into the record.

Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And also for the record, a statement by now-CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott in this same report, in which he says that cartels and NGOs actually coach would-be border crossers on claiming asylum after being apprehended by the Border Patrol.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Without objection, be entered into the record.

Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And for everybody that stuck with us through today, I think it's been extremely clear that certain NGOs have benefited significantly from the Biden administration's open border policies to the point where they actually found migrants before they reached the border to encourage them to illegally enter the United States in return for all of the amnesty and other benefits they could obtain. More benefits, in fact, than many American citizens receive, including free cell phones and upscale hotel stays. Mr. Howell, first question will be to you. Your organization's in-depth study tracked devices given to illegal immigrants by border NGOs and showed, unsurprisingly, that my part of the world, Denver, Colorado, and the surrounding areas, was one of their more popular final destinations. The sanctuary state policies in Colorado and Denver have allowed NGOs and government entities to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to provide services to illegal immigrants and have proliferated crime in our area, making Colorado this year the second-most dangerous state in the country. When the Biden admin and Democrats in Colorado reimburse NGOs to provide these services and benefits, how does that incentivize illegal immigration and encourage criminal enterprises to conduct business in the United States and in places like Denver and Colorado?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Simply put, if you build it, they will come. It is a completely cost-free for the illegal alien transportation and funding stream with everything they could ever need or want, things beyond what are even applied or given to our and needy in the United States. It also takes a lot of pressure off the cartels and makes it much easier for them to sell in the first instance, for an illegal to come to the border in the first place. And don't take my word for it. Look how the border is secure now. People aren't even trying to come because they know these benefits aren't available to them, even in the event they're able to get in.

Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. Ms. Hopper, next question will be to you. I was a cop and a soldier for about 22 years combined, and I am Latino. And unfortunately, I know through those experiences and others exactly how bad the crime situation is in Colorado. We're the national headquarters for Tren de Aragua, which I think we all know now, violent Venezuelan prison gang that does a lot of bad things to include human trafficking. You have substantial experience in the dangers that unaccompanied minors face on their journey to the border and then once released into the United States. Currently, the federal government is trying to review sponsors in Colorado. We've heard earlier today over 300,000 kids that we're trying to track down. Federal government has reached out to Colorado to try to see if these kids that may be in Colorado are in safe environments. However, state laws in Colorado that my governor has signed more than once are preventing the release of this basic information to federal investigators and obstructing the ability to do just basic safety checks. How do state policies that restrict federal oversight of unaccompanied minors and NGOs that fail to properly screen these sponsors enable cartels like Tren de Aragua and MS-13 to exploit or recruit children in the United States and then, again, specifically in sanctuary jurisdictions like Colorado?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

It absolutely encourages cartels and criminal networks to direct their activity to sanctuary cities and states, knowing that those protections will exist for them and knowing that there isn't that cooperation and federal oversight and accountability for that. So unfortunately, I don't know what the motivation is for your state's Governor, and I'm sorry for that because of the fact that that isn't helping these children. That isn't helping the citizens of Colorado. That isn't helping your constituents when you're protecting illegal aliens over that of those that elected you.

Rep. Gabe Evans (R-CO)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. And I got 4 seconds, Chairman. Yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Green.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'm concerned about children. I'm concerned about the 37 children who've lost their lives to the Guadalupe River in Texas. I'm concerned that we're not having a hearing to address the needs of these families. These are people who had their children at a summer camp. They expected to pick their children up. They didn't expect to see their children waste away. Many of them haven't been found. I'm concerned about children too, but I'm concerned about all children. I don't segregate children. I don't conclude that some children have lives that are worth more than others. I want to see something done about those children. Why aren't we having a hearing to deal with the needs of the people of the state of Texas and other states too that may have similar needs? I don't segregate. I integrate children. Let's do something about all children. And to proclaim this hearing to be one that is related to charities, I'm going to defend Catholic Charities. I don't believe you think that Catholic Charities would have 65,000 children mistreated. I just don't believe you think that. I don't think so. Catholic Charities does an outstanding job. I I I I would love to think that we could resolve all of these things today, but apparently we cannot. Let me go to something that I think would be relevant for this hearing as it relates to the state of Texas. This, my friends, is a picture of Mr. David Richardson, missing. Have you seen the acting FEMA Administrator? Where is he? Why is he not here to help us understand what's happening to those children in Texas? To explain to those parents why FEMA has been feckless and ineffective. I have intelligence in my hand indicating that an internal FEMA assessment ordered by David Richardson, the current senior official performing the duties of FEMA Administrator, dated May 12, 2025 paint a dire and deeply troubling picture. According to these internal reviews, FEMA is fundamentally unprepared to respond to national emergencies due to severe workforce reductions. Hello. Workforce reductions, terminated contracts, and systemic mismanagement under the current Trump administration. I care about all children. I want to help resolve any issues that we have with children. I don't want to see us decide that we can't have a hearing to deal with this man who's missing in action. Let me have this, please. Missing in action. Missing at a time when he ought to be on the ground in the state of Texas. Where is he? Why aren't we subpoenaing him? Why don't we get him here? Well, let's find out if we really are serious about children. Let's find out if we can get him here. Mr. Chairman, given that the Secretary won't appear and can't be subpoenaed because you've already taken that issue up, pursuant to Clause 2(k)(6) of Rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena David Richardson, senior official performing the duties of FEMA Administrator. I want to see where you stand. Why can't we have him here? Why can't he come in and talk about You have these three witnesses here to talk about the other children. Good. Let's get him here. I so move, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Gentlemen's time has expired. Is there a motion?

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

Move to

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

table.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Motion to table. All those in favor of the motion to table— and before we call the motion, the motion is non-debatable, uh, and, uh, is privileged. So all those in favor of the motion to table, please signify by saying aye. Any opposed? No.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

No, Mr.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Chairman, the chair— the ayes have it. Yes, sir, Mr. Green.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

Green of Texas would have this committee go on record explaining why.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Recorded vote has been requested. Mr. Clerk, you will please call the roll.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

No.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_06

Aye.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

Nay.

Ranking Member Bennie Thompson (D-MS)SPEAKER_23

No.

Rep. Josh Brecheen (R-OK)SPEAKER_11

No.

Rep. Daniel Goldman (D-NY)SPEAKER_15

No.

Rep. Al Green (D-TX)SPEAKER_13

On behalf of the 37 children who've lost their lives, Green votes nay.

Rep. Carlos Gimenez (R-FL)SPEAKER_07

Mr. Chairman, I wish to change my vote to yes.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Are there any other members who have not yet been recorded that wish to vote?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Guest votes aye.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

If the clerk will please report the total.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The motion to table passes, and the gentleman's request for subpoena will not be taken up. The gentleman has yielded. At this time, the chair would recognize the gentleman from— Mr. Pennsylvania— from the gentleman from the great state of Pennsylvania, Mr. Mackenzie.

Rep. Ryan Mackenzie (R-PA)SPEAKER_30

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it is truly an honor to be a member of the Homeland Security Committee where we deal with so many important issues on a daily basis, and the breadth of the topics that we are faced with dealing with and discussing is quite extensive. I look forward to continuing the work of this committee on a wide range of issues, some of them raised here today as we move forward. But the topic at hand is the failings of the Biden administration and how NGOs facilitated the Biden border crisis, where millions of people entered our country illegally during those four years. Within that, there was a subset of children. 300,000 children were not effectively monitored, and their whereabouts were sometimes unknown. That was questioned by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, and fact checks were done on that. And what did the fact checks come back with? They said, Well, you know, the 300,000, it wasn't that they were effectively monitored, but there were just 32,000 who didn't show up for a court case. And so they were at a greater risk of sex trafficking, exploitation, or forced labor. 32,000 children who are left vulnerable. And my colleagues on the other side of the aisle don't want to ask a single question about that. They don't want to talk about that topic. They want to sweep it under the rug. They want to turn a blind eye. They want to pretend that it didn't happen during the Biden administration because it is politically inconvenient. The welfare of children is something that they don't want to talk about all of a sudden because it happened under a Democratic administration. We have documented cases of rape of children, children working in extremely dangerous conditions, and those unaccompanied minors, when they went to do welfare checks on them, they're unaccounted for, simply gone. But they don't want to ask any questions about that. They don't want to talk about it. And so we have a responsibility as the adults in the room to govern, to do oversight, to do these questions that come before this committee to make sure every American is safe. And as a state representative, I contacted the Biden administration about this very issue. They didn't respond. I contacted our Democratic governor. He didn't respond. Nobody wants to talk about this issue of missing children in our country. So I am glad we are having this hearing today because we need to get some answers. And so my first question is for Mr. Howell. I want to understand the flow of money, what appropriation, what line item it was in, where it went to DHS, and how it moved to either states to facilitate the movement of these children or to NGOs.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

So, for the DHS money, most of it went out through FEMA and the SSP program, which was renamed about halfway through the Biden administration. It used to be called something else, but there'd be a series of grantmaking exercises. A lot of them are publicly posted online, where you can see the main organizations that received it. And after that, there are subgrants and other things. It's very difficult to follow the money all the way from federal government to end recipient, let alone the usage.

Rep. Ryan Mackenzie (R-PA)SPEAKER_30

So, it went through FEMA, which is intended for emergency management in situations like we faced in Texas, and was just talked about, but the money was gone. It was used for these programs, you're telling me?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

That's absolutely correct. And they begged for more time and time again.

Rep. Ryan Mackenzie (R-PA)SPEAKER_30

Simply astonishing that the money would be used in that way and not for the safety of the American public in emergency situations. The next question I have is for Ms. Hopper. Who is supposed to have the accountability and responsibility for the well-being of the children? When they move from one agency to the other, does the accountability and responsibility hand off to the next organization, or is it Homeland Security, since they did the initial intake, they're the ones who should be held ultimately accountable?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

It's a very good question. A lot of these agencies are pointing fingers at each other, and without a clear, established person or group or agency that's responsible, you had Border Patrol that had 48 hours to move these children, these men, these women through. Then they went to HHS, which, depending on the situation, would outsource that responsibility to NGOs. And so, without that clear oversight on who is responsible, it makes it challenging to hold people accountable. But at the end of the day, I would look to whoever is issuing the grant. There is a scope, there are deliverables, there is requirements that need to be met, and so the grant issuer is responsible for managing that contract to make sure everything is being met before issuing more monies.

Rep. Ryan Mackenzie (R-PA)SPEAKER_30

I appreciate that. I see my time is expiring, and so I would just like to say that this should just be the start of the conversation about what we can do to protect children in this country, whether it's more accountability that needs to be done at Homeland Security and officials who were in the Biden administration that let this happen, on worksite enforcement where children are being employed in dangerous, violent situations, and also what we can do to stop anything like this from ever happening again by securing our border and having ultimate accountability throughout the entire chain of custody of these children. I just can't thank you enough for being here today. It's an important topic, and we're going to continue to do oversight as we move forward. Thank you.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

The gentleman yields back. The chairman recognizes the gentlelady from Arizona, Mrs. Ansari.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate the opportunity to waive on to the Homeland Security Committee today to speak on an issue that's critically important to my district in Arizona. I represent one of the most diverse districts in the entire country, where more than 64 languages are spoken. And first of all, I want to emphasize how vital and lifesaving the work of NGOs like Catholic Charities, like the International Rescue Committee, and like Lutheran Social Services has been to constituents in my district. They work day in and day out with very little resources to serve people. The Trump administration's mass deportation policy has demonstrably failed our nation and our values. According to a recent Gallup poll, a 62% margin of folks disapprove of the Trump administration's ineffective, authoritarian, and inhumane immigration policies. I have seen the cruel policies of this administration firsthand in my district—separating families, masked ICE agents showing up to immigration courts in downtown Phoenix where people had appointments, ripping people away from their families, detainees in inhumane conditions. This includes DACA recipients. This includes green card holders. This includes US citizens. And deporting innocent people without due process to foreign prisons, it is unconscionable. About one month ago, I went to the Eloy Detention Facility, about an hour outside of my district in Phoenix. I spoke with more than a dozen women there who were desperate, devastated about the conditions that they're living in, facing significant harassment. They described a situation where one of the staff members literally forced them outside to march outside in 110-degree Arizona heat, marching around for over two hours, yelling at them, quote, "This is the price of the American dream." This is disgusting. And when we're talking about well-being of citizens, even if you believe that these people should not be in the United States, it is embarrassing that our country would be treating any human being like that. So, Mr. Howell, I have a couple of questions for you, very straightforward, yes or no. Do you support this type of treatment of human beings?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. All the other Democrats haven't asked a question, so I kind of wasn't paying attention. Can you restate it?

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

Okay. The detention center facility conditions in this country are atrocious. Women are being harassed. They're being dehumanized. In Arizona, they were forced to march outside in 120-degree heat until somebody fainted. I have visited these detention centers as part of my oversight responsibilities. I know you're a big fan of oversight. Do you think that is acceptable treatment of human beings by the United States of America?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

For illegal aliens to be detained throughout their immigration proceedings? Yes, I think that's the law.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

To be treated—

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I'm not taking your word for it.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

Okay, on top of that, 17 million Americans were just cut off of healthcare thanks to the vote of all of the Republican colleagues over here. Meanwhile, Republicans just gave more money to ICE and DHS to the tune of $170 billion. It's now one of the largest-funded agencies in the world, about 16th or 17th in terms of what a military would look like for other countries. Again, you talked about the importance of oversight. Mr. Howell, do you believe that members of Congress are legally allowed to conduct oversight of ICE detention facilities?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

As we've written extensively, the Oversight Project, because we're trying to help keep your colleagues out of jail, like Representative McIver, who was indicted—I misspoke when I said she was arrested—you as an individual member do not have oversight authority. Oversight authority, by the rules of the House, flows through the full House to the chairman, and that right now is held by the majority.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

It is

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

actually not oversight,

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

it's going to

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

end up with more Democrats clogging our jails.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

I

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

want to keep you out of jail.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

Claiming my time. Thank you. It is actually legal for members of Congress to go to detention center facilities that are operated by our government and to conduct oversight. That actually is legally allowed.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

That is incorrect.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

We also know that the Trump administration is funneling billions and billions upon of dollars to private for-profit prisons. I heard today a number of $6 billion to NGOs that you all are so concerned about. The private prison companies in this in this country, like CoreCivic and GEO Group, are making billions of dollars in profits because of the massive and stunning corruption. They gave billions of dollars to elect Donald Trump. Now we're making sure that they make billions of dollars. And speaking of sheer corruption and cover-ups for the ultra-wealthy, Mr. Howell, I know you have spent quite a lot of time talking about the importance of releasing the Epstein files, but now you're kind of parroting Trump talking points about this being a Democratic hoax. I'm wondering if— yes or no, do you support the

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

what have I parroted? Do you support it being a hoax?

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

It's a yes or no. Do you support—

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

no, it's not. You said something false. I'm asking you to cite what you said, which is clearly false, because I've not said what you said.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

Mr. Howell, my question is, do you support the public release of the Epstein files?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

My answer is written in an op-ed in The Blaze, which you can read. Listen, ma'am, I am trying to answer your question. You are lying to the American people.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

I'm asking

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

you in your misstatements. You just told a lie in this committee room. I'm trying to clear up the record.

Rep. Yassamin Ansari (D-AZ)SPEAKER_29

It's very simple.

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I am trying to answer if you let me speak. I think the public deserves way more transparency than we've got. I've written that. You've accused me of parroting another talking point, which I have not. Bring the receipts. You're lying and everybody knows

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

it. Mr. Howell The gentleman will suspend. The gentlelady's time has— the gentlelady's time has expired. The chair will now recognize Mr. Knott for 5 minutes of questioning.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Mr. Chairman, it's good to be here. Thank you for having this hearing. To the witnesses, I would say thank you. I think I owe you another thank you. This has been quite a long hearing, and unfortunately, the Democrats have obstructed, they've distracted, and they've refused to engage in this topic because it shows that their narrative that they have authored is false, that what happened at the border was just perfectly in line with the norm. It was beneficial to the country. There was nothing they could do about it. Whatever whatever narrative they've written, it is false. This was a designed, intentional, and protected endeavor to bring millions of people into this country regardless of the consequences. It was designed by the Biden-Harris administration, and the Democrats on this committee are still defending it. It's just astounding. They will not say this hurts the American people. Unchecked illegal immigration hurts the American people. We could go on and on. I want to give you all some time to talk. Mr. Howell, starting with you, one of our esteemed colleagues on the other side declared that what happened at the Biden border was not politically motivated. It was all charity. Do you agree with that statement?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Absolutely not. It was a highly coordinated plan executed by some of the most radical elements of this country for the sole purposes of ushering in a massive border crisis which caused tremendous damage and is still being defended to this day.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Does that affect the, uh, electoral count or congressional apportionment?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Absolutely, it affects the census.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Do you think that that is lost on Democratic governors, senators, and congressmen and the Biden-Harris administration?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

It is absolutely not.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Was there a plan to send them to politically sensitive states?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

I think they sent them everywhere, but the highest concentrations are the urban areas, which are clearly a benefit to the Democrats. Was

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

there evidence that these individuals here illegally were coached on how to register to vote, where to go, what to say, how to evade capture from immigration officials?

Mr. Michael HowellSPEAKER_04

Correct. It's happening still today with these nonprofits coaching them on how to evade. As for the voting, as this country's voting system became a laughingstock with the mass mail-in ballots, we have evidence from the Biden White House of a listening session they held with these radical activists where they were encouraging the Biden White House not to even ask people if they were citizens before trying to register them to vote.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

It's worth noting that the Democratic Party is staunchly and uniformly against voter ID, no matter what state it's been proposed. Just a random thought. Ms. Hopper, what interest do international parties have in sending millions of people to this country illegally, including children?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Particularly the countries that we have visited. A lot of the individuals that are leaving are criminals in their home countries. So their governments, their country's government, have no interest in retaining them. You are having the worst of the worst leave your country. You are having a decrease in crime because the worst of the worst are leaving your country.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Is there also financial incentives? Are they not sending money out of this country back to their home countries?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. They make money in this country.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

They're getting rid of criminals. And then they're taking home money.

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Exactly.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Amazing. You mentioned earlier— I'm, I'm, I'm sorry for being quick— there was one person at this call center for, for abused children. 65,000 unanswered phone calls. Let's back up before they even got here. How many people were in charge of vetting the millions of people that came across the border?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

I

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

would— vetting is being used as though it happened. Vetting did not happen, did it?

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

Not in a meaningful way, no.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

It was a process. They were processed into the country

Ms. Alicia HopperSPEAKER_03

supposedly, and not in a consistent way.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Right. Now, I've got one more question, Mr. Rosas. I want to give you a chance to respond to Mr. Green. He looked right at you and said he didn't believe that you really thought that children were mistreated by a charity with the name Catholic in it. I want to make a distinction. It was not an extension of the Catholic Church. This was a uniformly named charity with the word Catholic in it. But I want to give you a chance to respond.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

Well, yeah, because the reason why that was just a weird thing to say is because the people at the border, they know how these things work, right? This isn't new. So these NGOs, not just Catholic Charities, a whole bunch of them, they knew that the vetting wasn't done, that this was being done haphazardly because of the volume, right? The volume overwhelmed the system. And so there are shortcuts that need to be taken

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

by design.

Mr. Julio RosasSPEAKER_24

By design. Exactly. And so they still took the money to do that. They knew that these children were being abused before they arrived to the border. There was probably going to happen after they got to their final destination, whether it's a workplace or sexual abuse. And they still took the money because it was taxpayer dollars and they increased their, their, their pockets. And so it's very frustrating because I've seen children as young as 7 crossing by themselves. I saw a girl hold a 2-year-old, just them. So, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't know me. You know, a lot has been said about our credibility, but I've been there and I've seen it. And this was a big problem.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_19

Yep. Well, I'll close with this again. This was the biggest problem that I have seen in my lifetime, and it's going to take decades to fix. And it's astounding that the Democratic Party not only built it, not only implemented it, but they are still defending it. And the American people need to know that if they get back in power, those open border policies and the flood of mass migration will return. We cannot let that happen. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Rep. Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_14

Thank you, Mr. Knott. With consultation with the ranking member, there are no closing statements in this matter. I would like to thank our witnesses for being with us today and would like to remind our witnesses that members of the committee may have additional questions for you, and we would ask the witnesses to respond to these in writing. Pursuant to Committee Rule 7E, the hearing record will be held open for a period of 10 days. Without objection, this committee stands adjourned.