Exploring the Use of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Across the DHS Enterprise

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Good afternoon. The Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcement, and Subcommittee on Emergency Management and Technology will now come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare the committee in recess at any point. The purpose of this hearing is to examine the Department of Homeland Security's use of unmanned aircraft systems across DHS's components to enhance situational awareness and increase capabilities across its mission. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Today we convene to examine the expanding role of unmanned aircraft systems across the Department of Homeland Security. UAS technology, more commonly simply referred to as drones, play a critical role in border security, drug interdiction, disaster mitigation, and emergency response. As the United States faces evolving security threats, drones have become an important tool and serve as a force multiplier for both law enforcement and first responders. Drones can provide federal law enforcement with faster response times and a tactical advantage, to include surveillance, remote tracking, aid delivery, and intelligence collection. Since 2005, the Department of Homeland Security has integrated unmanned aircraft systems into its border security mission. Drones have equipped Customs and Border Protection with the ability to locate and track threats in the air, while also increasing officer and agent safety on the ground. CBP operates several UAS programs, including a small UAS program enabling rapid deployment of quadcopters to provide United States Border Patrol agents with real-time situational awareness. Thanks to the integration of this drone technology, CBP seized approximately 2,800 lb of illicit narcotics from FY 2020 through FY 2023. CBP's Air and Marine Operations oversee the agency's large unmanned aircraft fleet. The MQ-9s, a critical asset in border security and surveillance operation, has extended the eyes of agents in the land and maritime environments. Equipped with cutting-edge radar systems, these platforms operate covertly, significantly enhancing situational awareness, threat detection, and interdiction capabilities to strengthen our national security. In addition to border security, drones are also deployed in response to natural disasters and national emergencies. In Mississippi, we have seen how these systems have proven invaluable to law enforcement and first responders, assisting in search and rescue missions in the aftermath of hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, fires, and other disasters. In this ever-evolving field, partnering with private industry and public institutions are critical to enhance law enforcement's capabilities. DHS partnerships, like the one with Mississippi State University's Raspet Flight Research Laboratory, have contributed to multiple advances in UAS applications. Drones have undeniably strengthened DHS operations by increasing efficiency, reducing manpower requirements, and saving American lives. As technology continues to evolve, it is imperative that DHS further develop and define these capabilities. I believe that Congress has a responsibility to ensure that DHS, along with its public and private partners, has the necessary resources to advance the critical technology in support of national security and public safety. I hope this hearing provides us with some concrete ideas on which this body can act in furthering this important mission on behalf of our fellow citizens. Before I yield to the ranking member, I would like to take a moment to thank Supervisory Special Agent Larry Martino for his outstanding contributions to the committee. Over the past 18 months, Agent Martino has been detailed to the Border Security and Enforcement Subcommittee, where he has provided invaluable expertise and guidance on critical border security matters. His deep knowledge, dedication, and commitment to strengthening our national security has been instrumental in shaping key policy discussions and legislative initiatives. Next week, Agent Martino will return to his home agency, HSI, where he will continue to play a vital role in combating transnational crime, enforcing immigration law, and protecting our national security. I extend the committee's sincere gratitude for his service in safeguarding our great nation. At this time, I would like to recognize the ranking member for the Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcement, the gentleman from the great state of California, Mr. Correa, for his opening statement.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Chairman Guest and Chairman Strong, for holding this most important hearing today. I want to thank our guests today, as well. Thank you very much. Important hearing today on the use of unmanned aircraft systems across DHS. Today, we're going to hear about how drones are used by the Department of Homeland Security to strengthen disaster response, border security, and keep Americans safe. And it's important to hear from our partners on the field, where the rubber meets the road, as well as those developing these critical technologies, about what we in Congress can do to support federal, state, and local partners in this effort. And I believe we also need to continue to support research in new and emerging technologies, like drones. With the terrible environmental disasters happening almost on a daily basis across the country, we must support our frontline partners with the tools that you need to do your jobs and keep our communities safe. Now, I must say that I am concerned to see the administration moving to dismantle FEMA and to reduce the resources available for disaster response. Our partners in the field are facing greater challenges in delivering aid to those who need it the most on a timely basis. This hearing is timely as we continue to explore how we can better equip those in the front lines, especially as our resources continue to shrink under this administration. From the California wildfires to hurricanes and flooding in Florida and North Carolina, drones can help frontline personnel respond quickly and effectively to these situations. For example, drones can help first responders find the quickest route to respond to a disaster and assist with search and rescue missions. And, as we saw during the terrible fires in Pasadena earlier this year, they can also provide first responders and the public with real-time information. And once disasters are contained, they can also help with damage assessment and identifying safe routes. Technologies such as drones not only help with disaster response, but they also keep our community safe. And drones can enhance public safety by providing real-time situation awareness. They can also help law enforcement monitor and respond to illicit activities at the border, such as drug trafficking. And, as we can see, drones also have an important role in enhancing public safety. This is why I introduced the bipartisan legislation earlier this year, the DRONE Act of 2025, which would allow law enforcement to use federal grants to purchase and operate drones. In my discussions with law enforcement and emergency responders, it is clear that drones play a big and bigger role in saving lives. But as useful as drones for law enforcement and first responders may be, we also need to be prepared for those that would use them against us. As ranking member of the Border Security and Enforcement Subcommittee, I've heard that cartels will use drones to carry drugs across the border and surveil men and women of DHS at the front lines. Last year, the top general for U.S. Northern Command testified in the Senate Armed Services Committee that drone incursions along our southern border likely exceed 1,000 per month. The threats posed by drones at our border increase the need to understand how DHS uses drones, and is it set up sufficiently well to encounter and stop these drones? And I hope the committee will continue to do its good work so that our frontline officers can continue to be equipped to do the best job that they can protecting American citizens. And it's also vital that the federal government collaborate with research centers, the private sector, with venture capitalists to develop and adopt cost-effective, innovative technologies, such as drones and counter-drone systems, to help confront the challenges that are essentially on top of us now. We in Congress must continue to work together to create constructive opportunities for DHS, our state and local partners, to utilize new technologies to effectively respond to disasters, to save lives, to protect national security, to help trade, travel, and keep our communities safe. I look forward to this hearing today. Look forward to taking notes from our witnesses about the recommendations you all may have regarding drones, countering drones, and protecting American lives. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And with that, I yield back.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Ranking Member Correa. I now recognize the chairman for the Subcommittee on Emergency Management and Technology, the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Strong, for his opening statement.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

Good afternoon. Thank you, my friend, Chairman Michael Guest of Mississippi, for leading this important discussion, and Ranking Member Correa, and to all members for being here today. I want to also thank our witnesses for their time, for sharing their expertise. Let me start by shining a light on my district, Alabama's 5th, which I'm proud to say is well-represented on this panel today. As many of you know, Huntsville, Alabama is renowned for its leadership in cutting-edge research and development. As home to Redstone Arsenal, the nation's second-largest research park, and several universities, Huntsville is a thriving hub for American innovation. I'm glad we have such an excellent panel here and look forward to our discussion. Today, we're here to explore how our homeland security partners use unmanned aircraft systems, or UAS, and how this technology can be a force multiplier for law enforcement, first responders, CBP, and the DHS mission set. Emerging technologies like UAS are reshaping the way we respond to disasters. Drones enable the protection of emergency management personnel in high-risk situations while at the same time increasing the effectiveness of the work that they do. For example, small UAS with sophisticated cameras assist in monitoring critical infrastructure and assessing damage. When equipped with AI, these drones can spot potential flood zones or identify hotspots in wildfires. The data collected from these flights equip first responders with the tools to better allocate manpower, vehicles, and victim assistance. Larger drones with heavier payload capacity and longer flight times are also critical tools in disaster management. Rapid deployment and agility enable UAS to access hazardous areas that first responders cannot reach, which proves especially useful when trying to locate survivors or deliver supplies. In response to Hurricane Helene, the Asheville Police Department deployed drones for search and rescue, damage assessment, and overwatch for FEMA. Additionally, prepositioned UAS in western Florida quickly deployed in response to Hurricane Milton to track the storms and provide real-time data to law enforcement and first responders. 200 flight hours across 16 agencies were recorded, representing over 1,000 flights flown in the first days following the storm. This helped to create a common operating picture that enabled first responders to allocate much-needed resources. This technology helped save countless lives in the wake of these monster storms. DHS has also utilized UAS to safeguard our borders. They leverage this technology to protect our homeland from illegal crossings and combat illicit activities such as human and drug smuggling. CBP faces tremendous challenges, from dangerous environments and a broadening mission set to adversaries that continue to evolve their tactics and capabilities. Drone technology decreases the workload on CBP agents and provides critical situational awareness to paint a comprehensive picture of the threats impacting our border. Additionally, DHS's Science and Technology Directorate leads government-wide UAS research to counter threats and improve response and recovery operations for disasters. For example, S&T's Air Domain Awareness Program detects, tracks, and identifies aircraft to prevent and respond to criminal activities along the border. Also, S&T's National Urban Security Technology Laboratory manages the SAVER program. This initiative helps emergency responders and law enforcement make informed, cost-effective equipment purchases that meets national standards. And on top of these programs, S&T is leading critical development in counter-UAS, ensuring operational components can defend against nefarious actors. This work is supported by universities and industry partners, reflecting a collaborative public-private partnership across all sectors. As the use of these technologies become more commonplace, these partnerships are critical so that UAS can be safely utilized to their fullest potential. I look forward to today's conversation, learning more about great work that our witnesses are doing in this space. I would also like to mention and recognize the CEO of COLSA Corporation, Francisco Collazo, who is not with us today. He's back home at the headquarters in Huntsville, Alabama. He's been a friend of mine for many years, and I know that this organization does a phenomenal job. I also want to mention the University of Alabama, Huntsville. I live within 5 minutes of the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and I can tell you today, UAH is a critical part to national security. With an average ACT test score of a 28.5, a little less than 10,000 students, where 80% of them choose never to leave after graduation to work in national security. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. It's an honor to be here, and I want to thank our guests for joining us.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Chairman Strong. I now recognize the ranking member for the Subcommittee on Emergency Management and Technology, the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy, for his opening statement.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Chairman, and also thanks to my fellow ranking members. Good afternoon. Thank you to each and every one of you for being here today to discuss the use of unmanned aerial systems by the Department of Homeland Security. However, I want to begin by discussing the alarming remarks and actions by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Noem. Just last week, Secretary Noem stated on national television that, quote, "We are going to eliminate FEMA," end quote. This disturbingly received immediate praise from President Trump. Reportedly, Secretary Noem is active discuss— is in active discussions with FEMA leadership about dismantling the agency by October 1st, a reckless move that could leave millions of Americans vulnerable to the impacts of natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, winter storms, wildfires, and floods without any federal assistance. It's deeply concerning that today's hearing isn't solely focused on holding this administration accountable for its plans to dismantle the only federal agency solely dedicated to assisting Americans in the aftermath of disasters. I encourage my Republican colleagues, many of whom have had disasters in their districts, to take action to prevent this administration from doing irreparable harm to the American people by dismantling FEMA. While today's hearing is about drones, the unfortunate reality is that the Trump White House continues to create obstacles that jeopardize the very programs that we're discussing. The Department of Homeland Security's Science and Technology Directorate has played a crucial role in integrating unmanned aerial systems into national security and emergency response efforts. However, the reckless mass firings by Elon Musk and President Trump have hindered S&T's workforce and its capacity to innovate and lead. At the same time, the administration's freeze on federal grants, which is being carried out in violation of court orders, has left communities and first responders unable to secure the vital funding needed for acquiring and deploying drone technology. Grant funding from the Department of Homeland Security has been instrumental in funding local law enforcement seeking to adopt drone technology. However, under Republican House leadership, we've seen a 10% reduction in DHS grant programs in fiscal year '24, followed by similarly inadequate funding levels in fiscal year '25. This has significantly hampered local agencies' ability to acquire critical technology like drones. This is especially impactful for Western New Yorkers, the people I represent, where emergency services, law enforcement, fire departments, and other agencies rely on federal grant funding to deploy drone technologies in disaster response. I can name many different examples of this, but first responders are oftentimes utilizing drone technology in critical missions in my community. For instance, late last year, Buffalo Police used drones during extremely cold temperatures to locate and rescue a man who had become disoriented in the snow, bringing him to safety. Without adequate funding, local agencies may be unable to respond to future emergencies as effectively as they otherwise could. Ensuring our local agencies are equipped and funded is not just a matter of policy, but a commitment to the safety and resilience of our communities. I look forward to discussing today how we can promote responsible law enforcement use of drones to equip our first responders with the tools they need to protect and serve effectively. I thank you all for your testimony and your service and look forward to hearing from you. With that, I yield back. Thank you, Chairman.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Ranking Member Kennedy. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. I'm pleased to welcome our panel of witnesses. At this time, I would ask our witnesses to please rise and to please raise your right hand. I will now issue the oath. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before this Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and please be seated. I would now like to briefly formally introduce our witnesses. The first witness is Mr. Bryan Farrell. Bryan is the interim director of the Mississippi State University's Raspet Flight Research Laboratory, which is one of the leading academic research centers dedicated to the advancement of aviation. Mr. Farrell previously led the university's international research partnership and professional development efforts at his international institution. Our second witness is Dr. Michael Ledbetter. Dr. Ledbetter is the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer at COLSA Corporation, where he oversees strategic operations. Previously, he served as senior vice president for COLSA's cyber, information warfare, and data science program. Before joining COLSA, Dr. Ledbetter served for 28 years as a United States Marine officer. Our third witness is Mr. Jerry Hendrix. Mr. Hendrix is the director of the UAS program at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, leading all UAS research and testing support, both commercial, military, and government customers. Mr. Hendrix has many years of experience in the aerospace industry. And our final witness is Chief Kevin Fetterman. Chief Fetterman currently serves as division chief for the Orange County Fire Authority, where he leads fire, rescue, and other emergency services. Chief Fetterman is the emerging technology liaison for Orange County and the All-Hazard Incident Management Team program manager. He has over 29 years of fire and emergency services experience. I would like to thank all our witnesses for being here today. The witnesses' full testimony will appear in the record. I would now recognize Mr. Farrell for 5 minutes to summarize his opening statement.

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Mr. Bryan FarrellSPEAKER_10

Thank you. Good day, Chairman Guest, Chairman Strong, Ranking Members Correa and Kennedy, and the honorable members of the subcommittees. I want to thank you and your staff for welcoming me here today to talk about UAS as it pertains to the needs of the Department of Homeland Security, and more broadly, our domestic security and resiliency. My name is Bryan Farrell. I'm the interim director of the Raspet Flight Research Lab at Mississippi State University and the lead for Project JUSTICE. This program is housed within DHS S&T under the Air, Land, and Ports of Entry program. The primary mission is to serve the operational entities within DHS through research, development, testing, integration, and evaluation of UAS and related technologies. Raspet has a proud 75-year history in aerospace research with a keen focus the last 15 years on the newest frontier of aviation, UAS. Raspet maintains a fleet of UAS and manned aircraft, including the largest UAS in academic use, the Navmar Teros. Raspet leverages MSU property and external partnerships to operate at a myriad of test locations to include restricted airspace, as well as over 75,000 square miles of FAA-authorized airspace. We are also the house of the ASSURE Center of Excellence for UAS for the FAA, where we work with 32 other universities and test sites to integrate UAS into the National Airspace System. Through our designations and expertise, we serve industry, government partners to advance UAS technologies for their missions. In the spirit of today's hearing, I hope to provide insights not only into the benefits and use cases of UAS, but also an understanding of the considerations and efforts that support the integration of this technology. UAS are common in daily operations across industry and government alike. These aircraft augment and enhance capabilities and provide perspectives that operational units may not always be able to access. Drones provide situational awareness paramount to individual safety and security, whether that be in the execution of high-risk law enforcement activity or in the aftermath of a disaster while life-saving operations are underway. DHS component missions require integration of different UAS platforms, sensors, and operational parameters. Even within a single DHS component such as CBP, you see a vast, different usage of UAS types. For example, broad area border surveillance requires a platform capable of the necessary endurance and operational distance, while an agent engaged in tactical operations may need to carry a small UAS that can be deployed in confined environments. Beyond the UAS selected, the components also need to establish protocols and flight authorizations. They need to understand sensors and sensor availabilities for the platforms and how that data will be viewed, stored, and distributed. They need to make decisions based on the cost and maintenance of the aircraft, and all of these considerations exist within a policy backdrop and legal constraints about where the device is made and the critical components come from. These are just some of the variables that underpin how UAS get deployed within the DHS enterprise. Why UAS get deployed comes down to efficiency and safety. Looking at the last two examples, traditional broad area surveillance requires expensive crewed aircraft, a network of sensors, or something like a satellite feed. These options can be expensive and can oftentimes be unreliable. A UAS, by contrast, efficiently integrates into ground operations at a lower initial and operational cost point, while potentially having greater endurance and a higher-quality data feed. The tactical community is a great example of enhanced safety. Portability and maneuverability are paramount when these teams are executing high-risk operations. A man-portable small UAS can be rapidly deployed to provide situational awareness crucial for informed decision-making. Shifting gears from law enforcement to emergency management, this past hurricane season provided countless examples of UAS being utilized for response and recovery. Raspet's own operations supported Region 4 UAS Remote Sensing Coordinator and other stakeholders in leveraging our largest UAS, the Teros, for disaster response, where, in the aftermath, we broadcast live video and live tiled imagery to a myriad of stakeholders, including the White House. This facilitated faster response, faster recovery, and significantly improved the damage assessments. Raspet is quite fortunate to engage deeply in all aspects of UAS, including the technical and regulatory complexities required to operationalize. It provides us with a good vantage point to understand those pesky it depends scenarios that often arise around UAS. I look forward to engaging more deeply about our work at Mississippi State University and providing greater insights into the benefits of UAS for DHS and the needs associated with integrating this technology. Thank you.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Farrell. I now recognize Dr. Ledbetter for 5 minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Good afternoon, Chairman Strong and guests, Ranking Members Kennedy and Correa, and members of the subcommittee. I'm Mike Ledbetter, Chief Operating Officer for COLSA Corporation, a Huntsville-based, Huntsville, Alabama-based engineering services firm and drone manufacturer. On behalf of our founder and chairman, 30-year Army veteran Mr. Frank Collazo, I'm pleased to testify before your subcommittees today to discuss the importance of promoting innovation, security in the unmanned aircraft systems industry. COLSA began designing, developing, and manufacturing small UASs in 2019. Since then, we've manufactured and delivered over 1,400 UASs to the Army, developed software to swarm large numbers of UASs, and recently developed a line of commercially available UASs. The concept for COLSA's original work was developed as lower-cost systems with increasing capability began flooding the commercial market. At the same time, the threat from swarms of UASs was becoming better understood. Some of these risks include saturating air defense systems, electronic warfare capabilities able to jam communications, disrupt radars, or spoof the location of enemy systems. COLSA is now a leading provider of low-cost, non-developmental, deployable Group 1 and Group 2 swarm UASs. These systems support unit training and operations and aid in testing counter-UAS technologies. The program also provides soldiers with a low-workload, easy-to-use command and control system enabling a single operator to control the swarm up to 100 UASs simultaneously. In 2023, COLSA invested in an internal research and development, IRAD, program to leverage our extensive domain expertise and talent pool to develop UAS designs that are better suited for commercial and civil agency applications with an array of sensors and payloads to address several emergency response and border security use cases, such as delivering medical and humanitarian supplies, search and rescue, disaster assessment, and communications resiliency. One of the challenges the industry faces is balancing the availability of new UASs, components, and features that address genuine needs with the ability to obtain independent third-party compliance assessments. As the committee is aware, federal and government agencies are restricted from procuring or operating UASs or UAS components manufactured by foreign entities. The dilemma, however, is that there are very few certifying bodies that can assess UASs and ensure they meet the strict security and compliance standards. Further, the organizations that do exist operate with resources too limited to maintain the pace with UAS innovation. For example, the Defense Innovation Unit, DIU, held a Blue UAS Refresh Challenge with the purpose of verifying the submitted systems' compliance with the supply chain restrictions and cybersecurity best practices. There were 369 submissions that participated in this once-a-year Refresh Challenge. However, there were only enough resources to accept 23 platforms and 14 other components. These rates do not match the pace that American drone manufacturers are producing new systems or developing advanced technologies that could support emergency management or border security use cases. The impact is that federal and state agencies who had previously invested in fleets of UASs manufactured in restricted nations now have very few and increasingly expensive options for bringing their UAS operations into compliance. COLSA is well-positioned, well-structured to do business with these government agencies at very low risk. However, there's a challenging process to be evaluated and certified for sales to either defense or civil agencies. For UASs to be able to reach their potential in the use cases mentioned, several technologies need to be developed and matured, to include, but not limited to, beyond visual line of sight, BVLOS, operations that require long-range communications over a variety of networks with reliable data links for real-time data transmission. Artificial intelligence and on-board processing must progress so that UASs can detect and avoid obstacles, self-determine route planning, and make mission-driven decisions during BVLOS operations. Battery technology struggles to provide the necessary power for extended flight times. Currently, China still manufactures 70 to 80% of the world's lithium-ion batteries. We thank Congress for securing the UAS technology supply chain, as it is an essential step to shore up vulnerabilities from foreign exploitation. To maintain capacity and allow for greater competition in the market, we must open the aperture in approving compliant UAS technologies and platforms for both defense and civil agency use. This could be achieved through streamlined evaluations, additional certifying bodies, and automation. Finally, we hope you will support research and development in the technology areas that support BVLOS operations, improve domestic production capacity, and improve battery technology. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to address this committee and would happily take your questions. Thank you.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Dr. Ledbetter. I now recognize Mr. Hendrix for 5 minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

Good afternoon, Chairmen Guest and Strong, and Ranking Members Correa and Kennedy, and the subcommittees. On behalf of myself, Jerry Hendrix, and our 130 center employees, all of who are U.S. citizens and are cleared, the University of Alabama brings you greetings from Alabama. Thank you for inviting us up today to testify. And thank you for you and your staff's service to the American people. We really appreciate that. UAH ranks sixth in federally funding in aeronautical and aerospace research. Our center specializes in autonomous research focusing on unmanned aircraft systems and counter-unmanned aircraft systems. Our disaster response research has been recognized nationally by the Commercial Drone Alliance in testimony before Congress in 2023. UAH's research with exercises across natural and human-made disasters was identified as one of the top eight UAS programs to bring benefit to the American people. Over the past 20 years, I've been involved in over 4,000 development operations, training, and policy development programs and separate incidents in testing, exercises, and disaster response. Some of our center's research capabilities include UAS use in disaster exercises, border operations, and real disasters, worldwide unmanned aircraft systems threat analysis, development of unmanned aircraft systems as threat replicas and also role play, and development of unmanned aircraft systems and use by the DOD. Our center also supports FAA UAS research and trains DOJ agents in UAS use. Drone technology is advancing and evolving and offers great benefit to the DHS enterprise. We need three things: DHS-focused innovations, clear and controllable airspace, and special provisions for training, exercises, and operations. UAH research has resulted in many operations. Here's just a few of concern: operational disciplines across the UAS domain, especially when it comes to operational procedures compliance and controlling the operational environment for unwanted UAS operators. Some responders noted to us that the air responses are really the Wild West. Consistent operational procedures with checklists, checklists, and even more checklists must be used for any safe operation and response. The training and credentialing of operators to a standard set of minimal operational proficiency standards is a must. Research, training, and exercises and operations are overburdened by regulations and processes imposed by multiple agencies. We must be able to research and train as we respond and conduct missions, and responders and agents must be able to protect our own assets and our transportation infrastructure from unwanted, sometimes nefarious UAS incursions. Therefore, counter-UAS systems must be tested and validated against certified threats by independent agents, and the surrounding environments must be characterized for possible impacts. Today, most UAS systems are becoming just too expensive. Introducing new technologies and innovations are needed. Regulatory restrictions, processes, and documentation cannot force unnecessary technological constraints that drive costs. New technology for controlling the airspace via the automated air boss, use of autonomy, swarming, artificial intelligence, machine learning, beyond-visual-line-of-sight operations and technologies offer the ability to respond more rapidly and effectively. Research is needed to incorporate these new technologies and must be adjusted to allow safe introduction. Such technology insertion research could be part of a DHS innovation program to identify novel UAS technology that is simple, low-cost, highly productive to mission needs, and rapidly reconfigurable to adjust to the mission as it adjusts. The results would be a DHS meeting need set of UAS that is being made and manufactured in America, and we should allow realistic use of national airspace in the location of UAS and test UAS ranges, like, for example, at the Huntsville International Airport, with appropriate waivers. Additionally, cooperative threat analysis across multiple agencies is needed. For the border's UAS open-source threat analysis that we just ran shows the following: cartels are using UAS for surveillance; fiber-optic-controlled UAS are at the border; drones dropping bomblets and incendiary devices are also there. This capability came from the Ukraine-Russian war and is now available to be purchased online, making it easily available. We have seen multiple drone carriers as well, from manned aircraft and morphing structures. In conclusion, support is needed for more effective and efficient responses. I ask for the committee's assistance in allowing DHS Enterprise more leeway and freedom to research, test, and conduct exercises. Changing regulations for this support and allocating more resources for more research and supporting technologies will allow a more effective, efficient, and real-world-like response. We need to train and exercise as we operate, and we need an innovation program that will generate UAS technology specified by DHS that is DHS-focused, simple to use, low-cost, reconfigurable, and highly developed to mission needs. Thank you for your attention and consideration. I look forward to continuing discussions. I want to assure that UAH will continue the support and research to protect our citizenry, assist our soldiers and agents, get disaster victims on the road to recovery faster, and save lives. Thank you.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Hendrix. I now recognize Chief Fetterman for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Good afternoon, Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Correa, Chairman Strong, and Ranking Member Kennedy. I'm Division 4 Chief Kevin Fetterman of the Orange County Fire Authority. Today, I'm representing the International Association of Fire Chiefs. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss UAS and the role they play in the Department of Homeland Security's enterprise. Fire and EMS departments across the nation are beginning to deploy UAS during emergency operations. UAS provides a number of capabilities to improve emergency response operations and reduce life and property loss. From the perspective of an incident commander, it is key to gain situational awareness at the beginning and maintain it throughout an incident. UAS provides real-time data about the incident scene through aerial high-resolution imagery plus videos. Thermal imaging by UAS can determine the spread of a fire or the potential hotspots outside the line of a wildland fire. The lidar capabilities of a UAS can be used to assess landslides and mud and debris flows. UAS can also be used to identify subjects during search and rescue missions and for operational missions like delivering supplies or conducting firing operations during wildland fires. The September 2024 Airport Fire demonstrated the utility of public safety UAS. The OCFA deployed its UAS early to gain necessary situational awareness. During the incident, we used local and federal UAS with infrared cameras to track the fire and determine the extent of the remaining hotspots. While the fire covered 23,519 acres and burned more than 160 structures, it still provided a great example of how interagency collaboration can manage an incident successfully in a high-complexity environment. During wildland fires and other major incidents, it is important to integrate operations of multiple emergency response aircraft. In California, the fire traffic area are established to provide coordination between helicopters, fixed-wing air tankers, command and control aircraft, UAS, and other aircraft. The FAA also institutes temporary flight restrictions, also known as TFRs, to ensure the safety of first responders as they engage in emergency operations. The January 2025 LA fires demonstrated the advantages and risks of UAS use. For example, public safety UAS provided real-time information and data on the fires in Pacific Palisades and other localities. However, public, recreational UAS incursions created great risks to our operations. Between January 7th and January 25th, there were more than 700 incursions by more than 400 different UAS. One UAS flight was recorded at a level of 20,000 feet, and in another, a public UAS operator lost track of his aircraft and it hit a Canadian super scooper. It put a hole about this size in the wing. This accident endangered the lives of the crew, endangered the lives of first responders on the ground, and grounded the aircraft. We ask Congress and the federal government to take action to protect emergency operations from these UAS incursions. Specifically, we recommend passing legislation that would thwart pilots of UAS incursions into fire traffic areas and TFRs. Legal protections should be in place to maximize the ability of first responders to save lives. Formulating and implementing clear UAS mitigation procedures; identifying federal law enforcement personnel and processes for eliminating threats to public safety operations; enhancing remote ID requirements and reducing remote ID bypasses; establishing formal coordination plans with all relevant local, state, and federal stakeholders; implementing effective public awareness campaigns and developing continuing education for the public about the safe operations of UAS; and lastly, encouraging UAS manufacturers to develop solutions that universally support the emergency operations of American first responders. In closing, thank you for the opportunity to testify at today's hearing. Fire and emergency EMS departments are embracing the various benefits that UAS can provide for their emergency response operations. By coordinating the use of federal, state, and local UAS, the incident commanders can get a better understanding of emergency incidents and even identify and provide resources to victims. However, we must work to make the airspace safer for our emergency responders. The federal government needs to be more aggressive in developing and enforcing restrictions on public UAS incursions into TFRs. As we tell the public in California, if you fly, we can't. I look forward to answering any questions that you may have. Thank you, and I appreciate the opportunity.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Chief Fetterman. Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their five minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning may be called after all members have been recognized. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. Director Farrell, thank you for being here today. We have seen that recent concerns over privacy, public safety, and national security have led to restrictions on drones from certain foreign manufacturers. Given these concerns and these restrictions, how is the industry affected by requirements imposed by the National Defense Authorization Act? Thank you, Chairman Guest.

Mr. Bryan FarrellSPEAKER_10

So, I believe that the United States industry is playing catch-up. I think that the commercial market and first responders have had access to cheaper Chinese technology in particular for quite a while. I think that we had heard testimony around the program that DIU has that has certainly led to advancements and investment in US manufacturing. I think that the CHIPS Act and other efforts in order to bring the technology back here, to invest in the critical components, the autopilots, the camera systems, have made a lot of headway. If you'd ask me this question several years ago, I think I would have said we're pretty far away, but recent investments, recent technology is really showing vast improvements. The work that we're doing through Program Just- or Project JUSTICE is meant to support DHS components in their procurement processes. You heard about the bottleneck at DIU. One way that we're trying to support industry here is to give them an alternative pathway for DHS procurement processes where we do our own vetting, we do our own cyber vulnerability assessments as well as critical component analysis, and that opens the door for DHS components, as they choose to request and look at different technologies, to be able to give other manufacturers an opportunity to sell and to ensure that the components have a safe product at the end of the day. So, all that to say is the NDAA requirements have truly caused some bottlenecks, but we are working rapidly to try to alleviate those and enhance the American product, as well as ensure the safe operations.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

And, Director Farrell, you mentioned Project Justice, a partnership between DHS S&T and the Raspet Flight Center there located at Mississippi State University. Could, one, you just give us kind of a brief overview of Project Justice, and then you mentioned just a moment ago, but maybe go into a little bit more detail, the work being done to support the Department of Homeland Security?

Mr. Bryan FarrellSPEAKER_10

Absolutely. So Project JUSTICE was started as the common UAS test site back in 2016. We exist now in our current iteration as JUSTICE NextGen. It's the Joint Unmanned Systems Testing in a Collaborative Environment program under the Air, Land, and Ports of Entry portfolio. As a part of this work, we support all the components for their UAS testing as well as research and development needs as it relates to UAS, as well as other associated technologies. So as DHS gets a gap within within the UAS world, they'll reach out to us to be able to analyze that. And this can take take many different forms. It can be looking at the landscape of commercial available products. It can be examining what exists within our research portfolio to understand what can fit that space. It can also be custom UAS development. We've developed UAS that the market wasn't providing for HSI, an entry-level drone that had some really great capabilities. And it can also be items where like air domain awareness, we just delivered a tool for DHS that provides air domain awareness leveraging the beyond visual line of sight capabilities that Remote ID are meant to provide. And then also a broadcast through an ATAK system to give situational awareness. And we demoed that actually at the university's campus around a football game scenario. We've also leveraged the program to support FEMA Region 4. So we actually flew the Teros in support for Helene as well as Debby. And that was a really great showcase of a 44-foot wingspan aircraft, 24 hours of endurance that can distribute live video and tiled imagery. Those are just some of the things we're doing, but but truly, I think that the portfolio, given the partnerships, given the collaborations with our ASSURE Center of Excellence as well as the other industry partners, really opens the gamut for what we can provide to DHS.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Director Farrell. As my time has now expired, I would like to recognize Ranking Member Correa for 5 minutes for any questions he may have.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Fetterman, you oversee the Command and Emergency Planning Division of the largest fire agency in Orange County, nearly 2 million residents across 78 fire stations. You have a lot of experience with search and rescue and planning missions. How do emerging technologies like drone technology help keep Orange County residents safe?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Ranking Member Correa, thank you for the question. I appreciate the opportunity to answer it. Orange County Fire is fortunate under the leadership of Fire Chief Brian Fennessy to lean fairly into emerging technology. We see it as an important aspect at being meeting the threats that we face. We utilize every opportunity to engage in emerging technology, such as AI cameras for fire detection. And as you pointed out, we utilize a significant fleet of drones. We utilize them on the fireline to to determine and look for hot spots, especially outside of the line. Those are areas of the fire that you might not be able to see from the ground, but using the aerial observation and gaining that situational awareness, you can find spots that could turn into a significant fire later, especially if if there are spots in between the fireline and

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

identifying those spots before they flare up save countless lives, millions if not billions of dollars in damage. You mentioned 150 structures recently burned in Orange County. Boy, when they those fires go, they really go quickly. Technology, emerging technology, private sector, public sector. Recently, Elon Musk attempted to fire 400 employees at DHS. Some of those employees were at the Department of Science and Technology Directorate, which is really in charge of R&D, figuring out better ways keeping Americans safe. They were developing, testing, and evaluating tools to help firefighters navigate in dark, smoke-filled buildings, how to rescue trapped civilians, communicate with firefighters, first responders. Can you speak to the importance of making sure that kind of research and development is developed as quickly as possible?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Yeah, so certainly, I would say that the DHS Science and Technology is a critical aspect. We utilize that technology. We're leaning into firefighter tracking and identifying where our personnel are, and that's not an easy task. We have to leverage all available technology to do that. So emerging technology and even the bigger support of FEMA programs like the National Fire Academy and the U.S. Fire Administration, those are all critical to the fire service. Those are the backbones of our leadership programs and our ability to educate and teach our new and upcoming fire service leaders.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Mr. Fetterman, we're talking about the affirmative use of drones. What about the defensive side in emerging technologies? You just talked about what I would consider a knucklehead, a drone flying in an active emergency situation. I'd say these people have no common sense. I don't care how criminal you make it, they're going to do dumb things. So I would imagine the emerging technologies that we can come up with to clear the field, so to speak, so you can do work is also an important part of the emerging technology.

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Yes, sir. Seeing the report of the number of drone incursions on the fires in L.A. was, was frankly shocking to see that number of drone incursions into a fire traffic area. And what that is is you're talking about multiple aircrafts, 30 helicopters, six to eight fixed-wing air tankers, all operating to extinguish and mitigate the fire. And so when you have drone incursions in there, we need to do—we, and ideally this committee and Congress altogether, needs to take swift action to mitigate those incursions into our fire traffic areas and specifically the TFRs. It's an incredibly dangerous situation.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Chief, in my last 35 seconds, we've established that drone technology, emerging technology, very important, very useful, also very dangerous. How can we in Congress help you do your job better?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Well, certainly the emerging technology is critically important to us, leaning into that, supporting legislation that protects the first responders. And as I mentioned, the National Fire Academy is is our leadership backbone. That's where all of our leaders that that have— that bring that vision to engage in emerging technology come from. They're coming out of programs like the Executive Fire Officer Program. And certainly, the support of all the grant programs—AFG, SAFER, SHSGP, UASI—those are the types of programs that help the first responders at the boots-on-the-ground, boots-in-the-dirt level to continue to evolve. So I would encourage this group to continue to support those programs.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Chief Fetterman, thank you for joining us today, and look forward to continuing working with you. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, I'm out of time, but before I do turn over my time, I'd like the unanimous consent to insert into the record an article from the DHS Science and Tech Directorate dated November 6th of '23, titled, "Picturing the Future of Firefighters," which describes how science and technology serves a crucial role in R&D and testing technologies alongside the private sector to help our firefighters and other first responders to respond safely to emergencies and save lives.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Without objection.

Ranking Member Lou Correa (D-CA)SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

I now recognize Chairman Strong for 5 minutes.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

To effectively counter emerging threats, it's important to understand enemy capabilities and the technologies that are evolving in this space. Dr. Ledbetter, I know COLSA designs and produces swarming threat representative drones for the Army, but can this technology be used for other purposes?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Absolutely. We've used swarming drones to create asymmetry on the battlefield. That can be used in a positive manner as well, for a couple of things. One, we use multiple transmission methods that creates resiliency, and when communications go down in a humanitarian assistance disaster recovery type situation, that can provide resilience in communications. So that's one aspect that can be used. The second aspect could be coverage. So with swarms, you're just going to get more coverage instead of just one drone. You mentioned in one of the opening statements about MQ-9. It's one drone. It's a very powerful drone. However, we can provide a swarm up to 100 from a single laptop that can provide more coverage with more sensors that can do essentially 100 different missions. So yes, it could absolutely be repurposed.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

While we're on the topic of drone technology, we also hear a lot about technological advancement in drones as they relate to AI decision-making. Dr. Ledbetter, what role do you see for these technologies within the DHS and first responder mission spaces? What advancements are likely on the horizon?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Well, so we'll start with just AI. You know, we use that term a lot— drone-to-drone communication, using, using large language models to incorporate artificial intelligence, machine learning into the swarms. Helps, helps them automate not only their flight path but automate response. We've heard about drone in a box where you have drones prepositioned and without anybody actually controlling the drone, you can use AI to respond to some incident or, you know, a variety of incidents, whether it be a lost person at night or whether it be, you know, an accident on the interstate.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

Thank you. Everyone here understands the essential role that colleges, universities, and other academic institutions play in supporting the research, testing, and evaluation of new and emerging technologies. Mr. Hendrix, your program at the University of Alabama in Huntsville has advanced both government and industry use of aerospace and autonomous engineering solutions. Could you expand on the value that UAH and other academic institutions offer that differ from industry and why this is advantageous to DHS?

SPEAKER_UNKNOWN

Okay,

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

Sir, thank you for the question, Chairman Strong. We appreciate that. So, part of the research that we're doing in autonomy includes looking at advanced algorithms and development relative to artificial intelligence or machine learning, looking at things that's known as leader-follower or multi-application operations. We have the ability to operate in close proximity to the university and also on the university to test test out those certain kinds of paradigms. It gives us the ability to look at those algorithms and refine those developments in a more of a research standpoint so we can come up with a solution that organizations like COLSA could develop and then produce. One of the things that we were able to recently do in a for the DOD side is customer brought to us very specialized requirement: I need you to build the capability to do XYZ. I need you to have it built in a modular sense, and can you do it in 6 months? And we did. We developed that, and that's now it's ready for production.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

Very impressive. Given the increasing importance of UAS in rapid response scenarios, it raises an important question about how our regulations and processes are evolving to keep pace. Mr. Hendrix, in your opinion, with the increased use and capability of drones, are there any UAS regulations or processes that need to be adjusted?

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

Yes, sir, absolutely. If you look at the counter-UAS side, for example, we deal with—and I mentioned this in the testimony—the different types of regulations that need to be adjusted to allow us to do a full set of testing in the counter-UAS area, whether that also be detection or mitigation. And we're working with DHS on that, but we have been unable to, because of regulation, be able to do full testing. Again, we test, and we need to be able to test as we operate.

Rep. Dale Strong (R-AL)SPEAKER_05

And those partnerships are very valuable. In the previous administration, for every drone flown by Border Patrol, the Mexican cartel flew 17, many times entering U.S. airspace to land and offload pounds of fentanyl in an attempt to kill a generation of Americans. What is most interesting, in Huntsville, Alabama, we have the proven technology to neutralize that drone threat. We can intercept and do forensics, we can block their flight, or we can drop and destroy them. Our time is now. I thank each of you for being here today. Your information is very valuable. And again, thank you each for being here.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Chairman Strong. I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Ranking Member Kennedy, for his 5 minutes of questioning.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you, Chairman. And again, thanks to each of you for your testimony. Also, Dr. Ledbetter, thank you for your 30 years of service in the United States Marine Corps, extremely impressive. So I represent a congressional district, Buffalo-Niagara region in western New York, and we have our own fair share of extreme weather, and oftentimes it's extreme winter weather. We average over 90 inches of snowfall each winter. A few years back, Christmas weekend, over 48 hours, there was over 50 inches of snow that dropped, along with blinding wind and below-zero temperatures. It was a blizzard, Winter Storm Elliott, breaking record numbers, and 47 people perished in my community, just to give you an idea of the impact of this storm. I mentioned earlier in my opening remarks how the local law enforcement used drone technology to find an individual that had been lost in a wooded area, using infrared technology. And of course, Chief Fetterman, you're speaking to the impact of drone technology during wildfires. All of these natural disasters that are occurring with more ferociousness, and certainly more often. Chief Fetterman, can you describe the importance of testing and piloting drones in emergencies that are caused by these extreme weather events?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Yes, sir, Ranking Member Kennedy, thank you for the question. So certainly the last time you want to put a drone up is the first time. So what we want to ensure is that our personnel, when they're using drones for life safety, is to ensure they have plenty of opportunities to be prepared and they're well trained, and so we can leverage the technology, for example, IR technology, in a remote rescue environment safely, professionally, and most importantly, quickly. Time is life in our business, and so having that preparation in blue sky days is most important. That way our folks are ready and prepared to go to work when the time is right.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. Are there ways the federal government can help with these test cases?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

So certainly, as I stated, the support of grants that can assist with the testing process and the training process. For example, recently we used UASI grants for an incident management team training that revolved around drone swarms and aircraft and what would occur. So our personnel—and that was an operational area-wide, countywide program, test, and training—is making us better prepared to respond.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

Thank you. And Chief Fetterman, can you speak to how the federal agencies support fire response? I'm personally extremely concerned about the impacts on local first responders that the cuts to FEMA and NOAA will have. Can you speak to the agency's support?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Sure. So certainly there are impacts to the fire service, specifically under FEMA. U.S. Fire Administration is is an essential element for fire service leadership and the American fire service. As I stated, the National Fire Academy is the backbone of our leadership. It's analogous to the Naval War College. It is important to our fire service leadership to be educated. Certainly the grants, as I think as we mentioned, the funding opportunities to leverage to get those tools into the hands of the local first responders that are responding on federal responsibility area land. And lastly, our fire department and many fire departments and police departments across this nation participate in the National Urban Search and Rescue System. And that is a system that I have personally deployed within a handful of states and supported local first responders. The National Urban Search and Rescue System and its 28 national task forces is a critical element of of FEMA, and it responds on every national disaster. For example, every hurricane, mud and debris flow, flooding, the Surfside building collapse in Florida. Those are elements and areas that those task forces respond and support all of the local entities. And I can't say enough about how well and what a cost-effective resource those are, because those aren't federal responders all the time. Those are hosted by the home agencies. So it's a great program.

Rep. Timothy Kennedy (D-NY)SPEAKER_08

I have more questions, but I'm out of time. I yield back. Thank you.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. I now recognize the gentlelady from South Carolina for her 5 minutes of questioning, Ms. Biggs.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Chairman Guest. I want to thank you for holding this hearing today, especially considering the recent wildfires that have impacted my own district. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and the first responders and the entire communities impacted by these fires. I have been on the ground alongside state and local leadership, and I want to be as helpful as possible. I have been inspired by the way our community has come together. That's the spirit of South Carolina, and that's something to be proud of. Earlier today, I received a message that, so far, in my district, 12,652 acres have burned with 30% containment. And that was a little earlier today. This is the second record-setting natural disaster that my constituents have faced in the last 6 months. The Upstate is resilient and it will rebuild. So my question is to Mr. Farrell: Can you describe the coordination between your organization, federal, and local entities as you engaged in the response to Hurricane Helene? And the second question on that is, what capabilities do you foresee drones being equipped with in future disaster responses, and how might this expand the future missions of drones in emergency response situations?

Mr. Bryan FarrellSPEAKER_10

Thank you, Congresswoman. So, the coordination is one where, especially in Region 4, we're very fortunate on the remote sensing side to have a collaborative collection plan. It's really a model that doesn't exist in any of the other regions currently. So, our partnership with Region 4 stemmed out of work that's gone back about 8 years with NOAA to assess flood mapping and monitoring missions through our NOAA cooperative, the Northern Gulf Institute, and our Geosystems Research Institute. FEMA Region 4 took notice of the large UAS operations and reached out through that federal collaboration to begin investigating the opportunity for a large UAS to engage in these kinds of disasters, given the broad-area-type surveillance that we can be able to provide and that endurance. So, we begin doing blue sky exercises through Project Geospatial to really illustrate that integration into the FEMA operation. And so, when a storm, especially around hurricanes, begins posing its threat to our region, the collaborative collection plan is put in place. The region coordinates with all of the stakeholders, including the state and local emergency management agencies, to understand what their needs are. FEMA will reach out to us, and then we will preposition as best as possible to be able to respond. And as we get in, we, on daily calls, talk about areas and targets and interests for ingress/egress, damage assessment, search and rescue, and then we will get mission assigned and broadcast out as we collect the information necessary. Because we're doing this in a live fashion, we're actually doing it through a distributed Teams call with our pilots. They can reassign us as needed while we're in the air. As far as capabilities and the future for this mission, I think that, we had the conversation about autonomy. Autonomy is going to play a large role, whether that's drone in the box, or greater capabilities around sensors, greater capabilities around platforms, more ubiquitous-type platforms in this type of disaster response. One of the things we're doing is doing assured safe training to actually train first responders in these kinds of missions, understand the airspace management that exists, and do the training for airspace managers—your air boss, if you will. And then, what we also want to do is work with our state and locals to be able to enhance their preparedness and understand what the constructs are and what contracts and what kind of needs need to be in place so that, at least in Mississippi under our land-grant mission, we can prepare our community for response from kind of a grassroots perspective. Thank you.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_01

Thank you. And I'm just going to finish up with Chief Fetterman. It's clear that drones will play a pivotal role in assisting disaster responses. What strategies have been used on the West Coast to integrate drones into wildfire responses, and how have they improved coordination between the federal, state, and local responders?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Well, certainly creating situational awareness integrates information flow between local, state, and federal responders. And certainly on incident management teams. So drones provide that increased situational awareness, and they're a great tool to utilize on those kinds of events. Certainly airspace deconfliction is a priority to us. Drones and helicopters can't operate in the same space and time. So we're looking forward to additional AI technology that will allow that to better manage the airspace.

Rep. Sheri Biggs (R-SC)SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. And thank you all for being here today.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

I now recognize the gentlelady from Illinois, Ms. Ramirez, for her 5 minutes of questioning.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you, chairs and ranking members. I'm not sure if the titles of these hearings are purposefully ironic or simply unfortunate coincidence for my Republican colleagues' boss. Unmanned is at the heart of President Musk's technologically driven future world vision, and given his devotees in the room, it makes sense that we're not talking about the human casualties in DOGE's mass firings, but the bots he wants to take their place. And don't get me wrong. I recognize that drones and other innovative technologies are critical tools to assist in disaster and emergency response, but I can't ignore the elephant in the room. Innovative technology should be assistive, supporting the work of emergency responders. Another place President Musk and I disagree is that bots—bots assist humans; they don't replace them. People, both emergency responders and FEMA professionals, they're at the heart of our disaster response work across the country. But we know that President Musk doesn't believe people are at the heart of our disaster response work. He actually believes that machines can work better without the human messiness of debate, of oversight, of history, of reasoning, some of the same building blocks that create democracy, I might point out. So it's deeply frustrating for me to see my colleagues go along with Musk's unmanned worldview, robbing first responders of the basic resources they need to do their jobs, dismantling FEMA, and also allowing DHS to withhold the funds that this House appropriated, which, by the way, is a violation of federal law and a clear failure of the majority to provide appropriate oversight, the job that we have in this committee. But here we are. So I want to get into the questions. Chief Fetterman, yes or no, is it helpful to first responders, like our firefighters, when federal agencies like FEMA cannot provide grants for local cities, counties, and other communities to prepare for and attend to natural disasters, yes or no?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

Congresswoman Ramirez, no, it is not helpful.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. And Chief Fetterman, I have another question for you. Yes or no? Does it help firefighters when the federal government guts initiatives for research and new technologies that assist first responders in doing their jobs safer and more effectively?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

No, it is not, ma'am.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Pivoting slightly, we know that some of these new technologies and bots that Elon loves so much have some bias and some privacy problems, just like him. In 2024, the Government Accountability Office, GAO, found drones can support law enforcement. However, the use of those technologies in public spaces where a warrant is not necessarily required prior to use has led us with concerns about how law enforcement is ensuring that we're protecting civil rights, civil liberties, and privacy. Given that President Musk and Trump and his loyal follower Noem have gutted the Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, CRCL, division at DHS, which was tasked with preventing civil rights and liberty violations in the agency's work, I want to ask all of our witnesses here: How do your programs either offer capabilities or take steps to protect sensitive information acquired by the use of drones? And I'll start with Mr. Farrell.

Mr. Bryan FarrellSPEAKER_10

Yes, thank you. So I think when we develop these technologies, we definitely want to make sure that the information is safeguarded. I think moreover, one step that we're taking specifically at Raspet is coordinating with the Ole Miss law program. So there's a Drone and Space Law Program. I had an opportunity to guest lecture last last Tuesday, and one of the key initiatives that we were we were discussing was drone privacy, drone usage, admissibility in courts, as well as the safeguarding on that data. So one thing that that we're really focused on is not only the enabling capability, the mitigating on the counter and the threat, but also how do you employ it in a way as best to protect civil liberties for for those for those operators.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you for all that, Mr. Farrell. I want to get to the rest of you, so you have like five or seven seconds, but Dr. Ledbetter?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Yes, ma'am. Thank you. The Army is our customer. We're bound by their cybersecurity and data requirements, and we're in compliance with them.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Mr. Hendrix?

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

Yeah, no social Revealed, and existing data, once a determination is made where the plans need for research to continue— I mean, for search and rescue to continue— it's eliminated.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. And Chief Fetterman?

Chief Kevin FettermanSPEAKER_02

The fire service goes to great lengths to protect private information, um, and, um, but our priority is life safety. Um, we focus on life safety and saving lives and property.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Thank you. And with that, I yield back.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Knott, for his five minutes of questioning.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses who were here. I will say that I am a little bit miffed whenever I hear grievances about the current president and the funding that seems to be at issue. When you look at sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, and the amount of tax dollars that are going to illegal immigrants in states just like Illinois, New York City, California, et cetera, where illegals we now know are getting free healthcare, free education, free transportation, these allocations and dollars far exceed the total budget of FEMA. So I find it a little bit disingenuous that we're railing on money that should otherwise be reappropriated or reallocated.

Rep. Delia Ramirez (D-IL)SPEAKER_00

Mr. Knott, would the gentleman yield?

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

No, ma'am. And when when we have had 4 years of draining billions and billions and billions of dollars to people who are not here illegally, crocodile tears over FEMA not having enough money seems to be somewhat disingenuous. In regards to the issue at hand that we should be discussing, I would love to to ask you, Mr. Hendrix. As a former federal prosecutor, drones are being used to a very effective extent to undermine law enforcement and and truly our national security. Whether it's the cartels, whether it's local transnational gangs, whether it's the Chinese Communist Party, whoever it may be, drones are a force multiplier. And one of my gravest frustrations, whether it was the Bureau of Prisons, whether it was federal law enforcement along the border, whether it was countersurveillance measures that was that were being executed, what are technologies that we can implement and we can provide or promote that would stop criminals from using drones so effectively? So

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

there are some technologies that allow us to establish white world operations, so we eliminate aircraft from operating in the area. Of course, then the threat has evolved so that now they're just flying aircraft on fiber optic cables, right? So it's hard to do that. Another thing I think it's, it's important from our standpoint is to look at what things we can do to enforce our capabilities so that they're not vulnerable to these technologies. Our counter-UAS systems, for example, should be tested to certified threats by an independent agent based on the particular scenario that you're trying to protect.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Okay, and can you explain just briefly how that would work in the field? What— how would that technology be best implemented?

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

So the white world technology, for example, is you identify your particular aircraft that's going to be operating. You could look at it as roughly comparable to Remote ID or to UAS traffic management. You identify those aircraft that are operating in the area, then any other aircraft that's reported or detected by radars are certainly uncooperative.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Okay, thank you, sir.

Mr. Jerry HendrixSPEAKER_04

Yes, sir.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Dr. Ledbetter, I want to talk to you in regards to the components that go into many drones that we use in a law enforcement capacity, in a first responder capacity. It's my understanding that many of those components are made in other countries, whether it's China, whether it's other nation-states. Are you familiar with the basic percentage of our components that are put into American drones that are made in China or other countries?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

I'm not, I'm not familiar with that number, sir.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Are you familiar? Is it a problem that you're aware of?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

It is a problem, yes, sir.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

And how would you quantify briefly— we've got a minute and a half— uh, from your expertise, how can we assist bringing some of those jobs and technologies back back to the United States for manufacturing?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Well, it's absolutely critical. I find that most, whether it's first responders, military members, whatever, they want to get the job done, and they'll get the job done. And right now, the cheapest, most available resource out there is going to be a DJI, which is Chinese product. And we need to we need to comply with NDAA and bring those parts back into the United States and build a compliant American-made drone. Did I answer your question?

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

It did. But in regards, I guess, to, to follow up, in regards to what we can do in this committee, are there certain regulations, rules, laws that make it more costly for drone manufacturers to operate or to produce their materials here as opposed to overseas that you're aware of?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Absolutely. Supply chain is—we're hamstrung by the supply chain to get parts. Availability is another issue, and then price. We're looking at anywhere from 3 to 5 times the cost per part to make an American-made drone versus a DJI or Chinese part.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

In regards to the technology, as you understand it, how are American companies, how are American innovators faring as it relates to international competitors?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

Um, I don't, I don't really have that data. I know as far as, uh, as we're concerned, it takes significantly more money, more resources, and more time to build a compliant drone versus a noncompliant drone.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

And one more question. When you say compliant drone, just so we understand, what are you referring to?

Mr. Michael LedbetterSPEAKER_09

NDAA compliance.

Rep. Brad Knott (R-NC)SPEAKER_06

Okay. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Michael Guest (R-MS)SPEAKER_07

Thank you. In closing, I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their valuable testimony. I would like to thank Chairman Strong, Ranking Member Correa, Ranking Member Kennedy, and all of the members for their participation in today's hearing. The members of the subcommittees may have additional questions for the witnesses, and we would ask the witnesses to respond to these questions in writing. Pursuant to committee rule 7(e), the hearing record will be held open for 10 days. Without objection, the subcommittees stand adjourned.